TR Running Thread 2023

20 mile run today.
Today I realized that I haven’t done many 20+ milers since moving to FL in 2016. I wish the weather would have been as nice as the last few weeks were.

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I’m just coming back from a hip fracture. A month or so ago started off just doing 1 mile at the time, working my way up to two miles and did 3.5 miles today with my dog at a super leisurely pace. Really muddy and enjoyable. I’d all but totally given up on any hope of running again. But I missed it so badly. The simplicity of pulling on your trainers and away out the door with the dog. I’ve done a few Ironman things, Wales last year. This year I’m doing the Seven sisters skyline, it’s a 55km fell race though the mountains of Donegal in Ireland . It’s in September.



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Chinese New Year here! In all likelihood, I’m gaining a few kilos over the 10d holiday, but I’ll still get my runs, bikes, and strength sessions in! I did a few strides the other day. I definitely feel clunky, kinda like pedaling squares but the running version whatever that might be called :joy:

@Joelrivera How did the 20miler feel during and after?! IIRC, you’re in FL? As such, I’m guessing by nice, you’re saying cold and dry. Speaking from experience, that’s the only time it’s “nice” to run in FL.

@Sprusky Welcome to the thread! I know all about coming back from a hip fracture. I have the hardware and am in the process of learning to run again myself! You’re absolutely right about the simplicity of it! Baby steps!

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It was ok. Definitely not feeling ready to do 26 at sub 7 pace. I feel i can complete a marathon in a 3:30 or so, but my goal is 3:05 or better. FL weather is almost amazing in the winter. Most morning are in the mid the low 60s. Humidity never really goes away, but it get much better (drops to mid 70s). But with the massive cold front we it was COLD (for fl), where temps were in the mid to low 30s, and sometimes windy.
This past weekend tho, it was 65 at start. Last week, when I did 18, was 35 at start (with 12+ mph winds).

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I am going to have an entry to the 2023 NYC marathon, so I have been trying to build back up with the running. December and January mileage has been a modest 30 ish miles per week on 4 runs.

Yesterday was my 2023 debut race at the Fred Lebow Half Marathon in Central Park, and I managed a 1:30:05. Actually better than expected as my reach goal was sub 1:30. About 9 miles in I thought I would have it comfortably. I was feeling aerobically comfortable and picking up the pace. But, my low mileage was quickly exposed. I experienced some quad cramping on downhills and eased up because I was getting worried the cramping would force me to stop altogether. I have a lot of work to do for the marathon, that’s for sure.

Next on the agenda is a few shorter races in April and the Brooklyn Half in May. Maybe another half if I can find a decent one close to home.

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Starting week 3 of barryP style
my easy recovery days are up to 15 minutes and i think i’m going to keep it there until the half marathon, and increase the other days until i hit 30 and 45 minutes
then do a jump to 20 minutes for those easy recovery days until i hit 40 and 60 minutes
i try to guide my increases with “total running minutes” for the week, the 10% increases don’t feel as brutal that way compared to increasing mileage, don’t ask me why.

i get told a bunch that running 6 days per week is not a good idea (esp with biking and swimming on top) but the mileage is at a such easy pace that it’s almost getting to the point that i’m enjoying them

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No hardware required for me thankfully. Minor but enough to trouble me for a while. I’m just running every other day at the moment around 30 - 40 mins @ z1. No consecutive days giving myself maximum recovery.

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Please let me know if this kind of question belongs in this thread or if I should make a separate thread. TL;DR: I could use some help figuring out how to create a running plan for myself.

Now 50 years old and 70 pounds overweight after 30 years of sitting at a desk without any sports/exercise to speak of, I started cycling in 2019 and right now I’m finally maybe to the point where I can finish the GFNY Middle Course (80K + 1100m) this May. At 1.9 W/kg (207W, 109kg) even 6% climbs are brutal, but I’m slowly getting better. The training load I can (barely) handle right now is:

  • Tue: 1 hr VO2max or threshold (Bashful -1 or Starlight -4 this week)
  • Thu: 1 hr ish sweet spot (3x16 @ 90% this week)
  • Sat: 2 hr Z2 @ 65%

So in the near future, when I can add in a little running without destroying myself again, how? Not just “make a plan for me” but actually how do you think about what you need? What do I need to learn in order to create my plan and adapt it when things change? In cycling, I read/heard TR and Cusick. In running, whom do I learn from? People talk about BarryP a lot and I’ve read the basics about that method… but then how do you mix that in with cycling training? Ride and run on the same day, or what? How else can I learn how to properly set up a multi-sport training plan?

For reference, I ran cross-country in high school. But after those 30 years at a desk, my new 5K PB is 39:06 and my new 10K best is 1:29:06. Both of those were full-gas max-effort races, too. :grin: I can comfortably jog 6K @ 9:00 min/km pace and 148 bpm (80% of max HR, 90% of threshold HR).

Any pointers welcome…

@adenega Well done! It’s early in the year. Plenty of time to build up to 2023 NYC marathon.

@PhilippePhlop Your plan sounds reasonable. I did something similar coming back from achilles tendonitis years ago. I was adding 5min here, 5min there. Got runs to 3d x 30min. Then added a 4d and so on. I was going by time vs pace or distance.

@agingcannon What is it that makes it such that you can barely handle the 3d of bike work? Is it the time, intensity, recovery, etc…? As for running, I’d suggest saving the intensity for the bike and try to run super easy on 3 of the other days giving yourself one complete day off if needed. Why? Well running is hard on the body, especially so if you haven’t been doing it and doubly so if you’re overweight. Start with 15min super easy and gradually add time to each run. Keep the pace easy/comfortable for all the running. Lastly, you’ll need to reevaluate your food/nutrition choices so that you get that weight down. All of the above is a process. It’s going to take time. you didn’t get out of shape overnight. Conversely, you’re not going to get fit overnight either. Consistency and patience to avoid burnout and/or injury! p.s. I’m a big fan of BarryP.

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As mentioned keep intensity on the bike. If anything increase volume as you can, even if it’s 5-10 min a ride it adds up.

As for running I would recommend to start with walking. You mentioned being overweight and 30 years at a desk, your bones and ligaments have some adapting to do once you start increasing the impact from running. I would start with a 30 minute walk. Increase in 5-10 minute increments until you hit an hour. Then add a 1 min jog every 10 minutes of walking. Once you do that a 1 min jog every 5 min. And so on. Once you hit one min run, one minute walking and are doing well, try 2 min running and one minute walk. The big thing here is to go slow. Take off the weight, keep injury free and stay motivated. Good job so far. Keep up the great work and good luck!

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@agingcannon
All the above is good advice. Keep the intensity on the bike, your body will handle that better. Mine does, that’s what I do. Don’t be in a rush to run, take the advice of walking and building up to the hour, you’ll be surprised you can walk at a pace and feel you’ve had a good session. You could probably walk at the 9:00min/km pace and have far less impact on your body/joints than if you jogged it. Walking is more efficient and injuries are far less likely. I’m just other side of 100kgs (96kg) and know weight doesn’t help joints etc when adding impact. Last thing you want is an injury…

I spent months a couple of years ago walking around the park and doing the odd few minutes running, when I was getting back into it. Also had another reason for walking as I was going zero drop in footwear. When you get around to running, do it at a pace you could have a conversation at and enjoy the run, as you’ll be doing the intensity on the bike! before long you’ll be amazed how far you can go… enjoy your journey.

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Just about managing the Sweetspot base low volume plan (3 workouts 3.5hrs) and around 3-4hours (30-40km) of running every week but only half of running in the VFFs, it’s too cold on my pinkies to do more at the moment! (yes I hear you… rule #5)

Doing my second mini Ultra in May, the 55km 3300m in the Snowdonia hills in May, so I’ll have to start ramping up the hours on the running side soon. Got the other half doing the introductory 25km event on same day :slight_smile:

Good early signs, did the National trust 10km in the forest on Sunday in freezing conditions, all trees icy white, took it really easy for first and second orbits, keeping the pace down, enjoying the run. I was doing an easy comfortable pace and as I needed to get the hours in for the week I ended up doing a couple of more orbits and completed an easy half marathon. Only later did I notice its my second fastest HM, 2hr 3min.

I’ve never been under 2 hrs, it’s one of my background targets. I’ve never tried running a HM on the road/pavement, it’s always been on the trails with hundreds of meters of elevation and gates to leap (crawl) over! Maybe I should try some road pounding!

Anyway I have another two weeks on the TR plan before recovery week starts and then I’ll review all things, hopefully I’ll feel like doing another block of Sweetspot base, though last nights VO2 max session wasn’t that enjoyable. Maybe just the three sessions of ‘Train Now’ a week, doing a VO2max, Sweetspot and a Threshold session. Thus decreasing bike sessions to 3 hrs/wk and increase running to 5hrs/wk. It’s early in the season, still shedding the Christmas timber/bark and would ideally like to lose 4-5 kilos before May, thus the backpack will be ‘free’ weight!

This is were I’m at the moment, all looking good, hope it is for all of you too!

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I’m hoping to get back to consistent exercise and training this year. I’ve been sidelined with two running injuries for nearly a year. I damaged some ankle ligaments on one foot and, as I was getting back into running, I developed a stress fracture in the other foot. I’ve been out with that injury for the past two months. The physio prescribed more aggressive rest, but the injury is being slow to heal.

I think I need to focus on building some general strength and resilience when I do get back to it.

Any race goals will have to wait until I see how I’m coming back. I’d like to build to my first trail ultra-marathon (80 km) in April 2024 though.

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Thanks for all the good advice! I had trouble thinking of anything less than 6K (of which 1.5K was WU/CD and 4.5K was jogging) as a “run”. I’ll scale back my thinking further, start with walking and gradually add some jogging back in.

It seems to me to be primarily recovery-related. I need better sleep, and I’m older and pretty badly out of shape, and I have a VERY unpredictable and high-stress life, so my body just needs lots more recovery than I thought it would. And I’m slowly, definitely the hard way, learning to provide that and not push the TSS too much. Six months ago I built up to 400+ weekly TSS… that didn’t last long! :grin:

Wholeheartedly agreed, mostly because I’ve already been there. Lost over a year of training and essentially all my progress to a shoulder injury in 2021, which is why after starting in 2019 I was essentially RE-starting in 2022, and still managed to overtrain myself so that I lost most of Nov/Dec 2022 to exhaustion. Now re-re-starting in 2023, slower and hopefully wiser!

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Anyone successfully get over post tibial tendonitis (I think that’s the correct term)? I haven’t ran since December and I’ll typically range from 15-35 mpw, never too much. But had to take a break (right around the time I started TR) b/c it was actually painful to run. It’s been slowly healing to the point where I almost dont feel anything anymore except a slight tinge when I flex my ankle a certain way, which still concerns me as the tinge feeling gives me the impression there’s still some instability in the tendon or something.

How have people dealt with this? Just rest until it’s completely gone?

If it’s truly a tendon injury, rest will never completely heal it. You will need to do some strength training. Start with isometric loading, progress to eccentric loading and then full motion loading. I’d avoid stretching.

These seem like a good place to start, but personally I’d avoid the stretching it mentions and focus on the resistance exercises.

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It’s a pesky, persistent thing. I pretty much managed it on and off for a couple of years. Reduced volume when it flared up, etc. Eventually it did go away. I did do some PT as well. Short term I never noticed a difference but maybe it eventually helped. But it was a thorn in my side for quite some time. As running injuries tend to be when you’re on the wrong side of 30.

Welcome to the thread! I had it about 10yrs ago in my left foot/ankle. My ortho recommended rest. I was less than happy w/“rest”. I could ride w/out any issue, so I rode. It was about 6mo before I could walk 100% pain free. I then got arch supports (orthotics) and started to walk/jog, jog, then run over the period of a few months. I haven’t had any issues since. I still use the same set of orthotics. I’ve run a few times w/out the orthotics and didn’t feel any worse for wear. However, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it right. So, I continue to wear the orthotics.

I went to the track today to play w/my Garmin 955. I used the track mode which turns out to be extremely good! To learned the track run a minimum of 2 laps to let it learn the track (I ran 4) and then save the activity. Next time, it’ll have the learned/calculated data. Even during the “learning” it was actually quite accurate vs my previous experience w/the 935 which would bleed anywhere from 1-5m per lap. So, If you have a Garmin w/track mode, it’s worth using if you’re at a track. The learning has to be in lane 1 , but afterwords you can select a diff lane and it will automagically adjust for the stagger. Again, quite cool.

No track workout for me. I was getting the Garmin set for when I’m ready to do track work again. Speaking of, it’s an odd shaped track. The curves are 100m and the straights are 100m and only 5 lanes.

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I thought they were all like that…