Sounds like rucking! It was a really good workout for the feet and ankles, then obviously the postural muscles, shoulders, neck, etc. For me, the muscles like feet and ankles, postural muscles are the ones that get tired on long runs. Curious to see what happens!
Wondering if anyone can give me some advice on this. I’m about six weeks out from a goal marathon and had been doing about 70 miles of running per week. I recently had a flare up of posterior tibial tendonitis which seems like it will require at least a week off of my feet.
This means that I’ll miss one of the biggest load weeks of my training program. I had 5x1200 at 5k pace today and then a 18 mile run with 14 miles at MP this weekend. Based on the fact that I can’t walk right now, it looks like these are probably complete write offs.
As I see it, I can either:
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replicate the workouts in TR to the best of my abilities. (5x1200) would become 5x5 at close to VO2max and the long run would become 2:15 total time with about 90 minutes at high sweetspot.
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Don’t worry about replicating the workouts exactly, and just try to hit a VO2 max and a sweet spot sessions on the bike while keeping total training hours roughly the same.
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Take this as a deload week and just ride endurance while doing fewer total hours.
I’m sure others have been in a similar situation so any advice and/or reassurance you have would be awesome!
Sometimes a week off is what you need and in the long run may even help! If you have the base behind you missing a week will be negligible. If there is no pain and you can ride the bike I would do it… more for your sanity and nerves than actual philological benefit.
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Been there done that. Not what you want to hear, but if it’s really PTT and you can’t walk right now, it’s highly unlikely one week off is going to be enough. YMMV, but It was weeks before I was pain free.
Have you switched shoes lately? or are the current pair(s) worn/broken down and due for replacement? Do you have adequate arch support? In my case, it was inadequate arch support causing my foot to roll in a tad too much.
If you can cycle w/out any pain, then ride endurance as others have mentioned.
So your priority is heal.
Heal is the opposite of stressing the body for muscular adaptations.
Don’t throw away training to show up overtrained or injured to the start line. Take the week off. Listen to your body. Don’t try to make up mileage, intensity. Ease back in next week.
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That’s the crazy thing. No change to shoes or a fall. Just finished a Sunday long run, took a shower, sat down, and then couldn’t put any weight on my left foot… Tried to do a calf raise and ended up on the floor. Whole thing was bizarre.
You’re right though, definitely not what I wanted to hear, but what you’re telling me is in line with what I’ve heard everywhere else. I guess I’ll just take it relatively easy and hope for the best.
Are your shoes in need of replacing? How many miles?
Do you guys count treadmill miles the same as road miles?
I hadn’t been bothered to track miles previously, but it was something I am doing in 2022 via Strava, shooting for injury prevention. I just retired a pair of Novablast and was comparing them to the previous pair (same model) and the most recent pair with almost entirely outdoor road miles but overall a bit less total mileage showed more physical wear in the foam sides and sole. The previous pair had a bit more total miles but was also used a fair bit more on the treadmill.
Treadmill running is definitely different. The belt moves under your foot rather than the force coming entirely from you pushing off (when running outside). I’ve also noticed my mechanics are mostly the same but I tend to take shorter strides. I could see how that could impact wear on your shoes.
Treadmill running is tough.
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Do like my treadmill running, currently using it for strengthening legs for hills, currently my weekly hill goto workout is 2km@6% then 4km@9% then another 2km@6%. All done at a slow speed of 8kph in my Vibram five fingers (VFFS). Imagine treadmill will get used more through the winter, find it a good option to have when horizontal windy freezing rain is putting off that run outdoors.
Anyway back to the current thread, my thoughts if your trainers are worn out, put aside the stuff that is making your feet weak and prone to issues or just use it sparingly, build your feet up, strengthen them, slowly get yourself away from Arch supports, wean yourself away foam, supports, the advertising hype etc Get your feet in a condition where they function as designed. Get all those tendons and muscles rebuilt and strong. It takes time, but I am an advocate of the rewards. I did read somewhere the actual number of people that ‘really’ need arch support is far far lower percentage than those that are prescribed to use it. Please know that I don’t know your history and for all I know you might have the strongest feet out there, medically need certain support, but this is only said from someone who couldn’t run for 5 years due to the use of these ‘supporting’ trainers and the problems they caused me.
I’m hardly using my Altras Olympus 4’s anymore, they are the only foaming running footwear I own and only because the Ultras events here don’t let you compete in VFFS. Did a 60km last week, mixture of indoors and outdoors in the VFFs, taken 18 month to get here, gone through the over using the Achilles etc on the way (transitioning) but they never got to the point they stopped me running. Touching wood injuries appear to be a thing of the past and all runs short and long have me smiling. Any run approaching 30km seems to be the point where the feet start aching now, but those long runs have included long rock, stone sections with Tarmac being a surprisingly nice break from those parts! Anyway I’m continue to build on that, it’s still early days in my running revival and wish you success in yours once you overcome your current injuries.
I’m starting this journey. Achilles problems and foot weakness with carbon shoes and arch support has led me to slowly transition to minimalist shoes throughout the day. Makes me nervous to run in them though. I’m wondering - are your races and long runs also in minimalist shoes? Seems like a lot of speed to give up on race day. I’m also wondering how minimalist shoes would do for longer trail runs
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I don’t race, well not for podiums or top positions, too old for that now, I class it as more partaking in events , enjoying and finishing them smiling! Ultras here in the mountains don’t allow you to wear minimalist footwear, so that’s when I go with the Olympus Ultras. Can understand as the slate rock can be very sharp and easily go through a few millimetres of tread, thus make you more prone to needing aid. So I can understand their rules.
That saying I do all my training, on roads/low land trails in my Alpha/Trail Vibram Five fingers. You’ve got to take time to let your feet transition. I know now I can run down a complete lumpy angled hard stone track and be fully comfortable, 18 months ago it would have been very painful and I’d be picking a path slowly. Would have been the same for a mile on tarmac/road. It’s amazing how quickly your feet toughen up. There’s also the fact that you land softer using minimalist shoes as your feet aren’t hunting for the ground.
My other half would also add about the side of feeling the ground, being in tune with the trail, all that “hippy stuff” she’s say… I know I just like the feel and feedback from the ground and work on that easy, light, smooth and maybe one day fast!
Maybe you’ve listen to this as it’s 5 years old but this was a podcast I came across recently which I think does address the loading rates and more, interesting as she was a leading experts in running biomechanical injuries and used to deal with orthotics for people and did a complete U turn in her approach. This might make you less nervous about running in minimalist footwear.
I am probably mansplaining something to you, but there is a difference between cf midsoled shoes and minimalist shoes, and its not what you may think.
Minimalistic shoes are basically 0 offset shoes with the least amount of cushoning as possible. Thins Vibram 5 toes (why fingers here and not toes?) or similar shoes. The idea was to give the feeling of running almost barefoot. BUT, at some point the industry started shifting.
There were a ton of injuries related to the so called minimalistic shoes (mostly no padding 0 offset) so the industry slowly went back to start adding some more padding with low offsets. People suddenly started using shoes that were meant to run 5k (almost no padding with very small offsets) to run marathons. Think of the Adidas racing flat lines. For all intend and purposes they were minimalistic shoes. But people didnt realize that racing flats were super common years ago for shorter races, specially in Japan.
The Nike came up with the CF plate and VERY soft midsoles. They basically took the flat idea (very small offset) and added a shit ton of padding and cf plates.
Anyway…long way to say… Minimalistic shoes are shoes that mostly have no padding and no offset.
CF shoes have low offsets and a lot of padding.
I dont think the problem is necessarily the shoes, or the CF, but the way the specific low offset shoe makes you run.
The lower the offset, the more you need to run on your toes. If you dont do that, you may risk injuries. And that why we dont have many minimalistic running shoes any more.
that was a lot of rambling…probably very incoherent.
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Haha no worries, I appreciate the comments, but yes I am very familiar with all of this. An important point to make though that has been repeated many times - injuries happen often during the transition if done too quick. From what I’ve read and heard, this is a multi-year undertaking. I’m already a forefoot striker, so I don’t think the transition will be as long for me as others, but I assume it should still be a very slow transition (just like anything similar). I’m also not sure that minimalist shoe designs are uncommon now due to injury. I think it is much more likely that they are just much slower. Put yourself in the Nike board room - “Hey y’all, this shoe looks like it may help with long-term foot health but it hurts some/more over the first year leading people to quit wearing them and it is demonstrably slower than our current line-up. Who’s in?” 
Sorry no offense but this sounds like echo chamber stuff. Minimalist shoes are easy to find if you look around. Also, are there studies looking at massively cushioned shoes and foot health? The ones I’ve heard compare speed. The foot health/injury prevention, pain-prevention studies show no differences between the two or improvements with minimalist design (regurgitated from other podcasts).
All that being said, I honestly can’t imagine that doing speed work or long runs on pavement in minimalist shoes is a good idea for me personally. My plan is to use them intermittently on short slow recovery runs (20-40 mins HR 110’s) and wear some during the day at work to strengthen my feet. If I get too sore, I’ve always got a pair of Hokas on hand to use for awhile 
I’m not willing to give up the speed of cushioned shoes just yet
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Yes.
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I analysed the minimalist opinions and science many years ago and came out on the side of comfort and variety - personally I see no value in minimalist shoes, but each to their own.
And recently I guess I’ve ‘taken it further’, I’m only training and racing in VaporFlys, except for trail and rain. I see greater value in the reduced recovery time than any other factor.
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I may very well end up right where you did. Experience is the best teacher
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We all respond differently to all, I personally see lots of value in minimalist shoes ( no shock there!) and also lots of value in my heavy shod boots for winter hiking in the mountains. Since going down the minimalist route I can now hike further with more weight on my back for more days, which again I put down to foot strengthen, a by product of minimalist footwear.
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Yeah, I’m personally a big fan of the more minimalist Adidas/ASICS offerings, and I’m glad there’s still a few holdouts in that realm. Got a gait analysis done and they were some of the best for my running form, which checks out with how they feel vs more “maximalist”/stability-oriented options.
Can’t argue with seconds gained when it comes to carbon fiber on race day, but when it comes to training I think there’s a lot more room for individual variation. And while I think there’s something to be said for cushioning when it comes to injury prevention, I don’t think it’s a objective “better” in all cases- I’d rate having something that works with your biomechanics far higher.
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