With those times, a sub 3 hour marathon with the right training is in the bag, you already have better vdot than it would take to go sub 3 in the marathon.
It really comes down to getting in the volume, the quality long runs as you get closer to race day, and proper race selection and pacing.
Look forward to seeing it.
So, I sort of got my start in running for 6 months, to overcome obesity, and be fitter for my young kids, and 6 months later had the crazy idea of doing triathlon, so I bought a bike.
THEN got hit by a car, shattered my femoral neck, got emergency hip surgery, and was told i should find a new hobby, as I’d likely not be able to take part in this sport again, and wasn’t even allowed to attempt running for at least 2 years, due to the risks of avascular necrosis.
Turns out stationary bike was a great way to rehab the leg and hip though, so I ended up spending more time on the bike than I ever thought I would.
After ~5 years of working out muscular imbalances, pain from the hardware etc etc., I got into running consistently, had a miserable first year, and decided to jump into the deep end to REALLY learn to run. I had some bad experiences at some local short trail runs, that really humbled me.
I watched some youtube videos, found the Squamish 50/50 a few hours from me, and I got my stoke on.
I now decided it was time to become an ultrarunner. 50 miles saturday, 50k sunday, on super technical mountain bike trails, totalling 19,000 feet of elevation gain over 2 days.
After 2 years of this nonsense I did my first marathon. 3:23. Pretty decent first outing, the couple years of ultra running sure helped 
Decided I wanted to go sub 3 6 months later and qualify for boston. Everyone told me I was an idiot.
Well, I managed a 2:58:58 in vancouver, even with a #2 stop half way, dead even splits, minus the stop
I ran the legendary 2018 edition of the boston marathon, youtube some footage if you are unaware of the conditions. Monsoon conditions, crasy rain, crazy cold, and even crazier gusting headwind all day.
2:57:01 PR
After a couple running related injuries, including almost ripping my iliopsoas tendon right out of the bone, I got my 10k to 35:52, and then focusesd on shorter distance getting my 5k down to 16:41.
Would love to get the 5k on the track down to 15:59 in the next season or two, as well as new benchmarks in my other distances.
Given my current ~350 W FTP, and the room I have to grow on the run, that doesn’t seem too unreasonable.
PS, anyone who saw/listened to the most recent successful athletes podcast with Connor Willson, Him and I went 1/2 at provincials together. We had a 3 man break, and our 3rd guy knew on the hill on the last lap that he was settling for 3rd, hahaha.
It was good to hear that in a 4/5 race, that at least I got second to someone else who also didn’t belong in that cat.
We both catted to 3, and looking to cat up to 2 in the new year once spring racing starts, and have a go at elite tt provincials, where my strength is, since I am a triathlete.
Also have Ironman Canada coming up next year, and I’ve done a couple of 4:31 halfs that I wasn’t really fully prepared for, so there’s room there for improvement.
Expecting some good things next year. Hope top share some of the run side here!
Great write, good luck with next year, look forward to reading about those coming runs here…
Nice story! Your 10k and 5k times are impressive. It would be pleasure to hear more details about your training?
I have been off running now almost 7 weeks due tibia stress fracture since my half marathon PR 1:21:45. I hope to get back to running next month.
It always feels much longer and harder to come back from during the process!!
I had a BAAAD 2018-2019 winter, put on 40 pounds and then got a metatarsal stress injury from ramping up too fast to try to get ready for Boston again ( since I requalified when I ran in 2018 )
I didn’t get to run Boston that year as a result!!
My training evolved over time. I used to push a lot more run volume, tuesday track, thursday threshold, weekend long run, then just lota of easy volume, but while I responded well to the cardiovascular benefits, my body had a hard time with the overall stress. I had also lowered my bike volume at the time to focus on the run. I was doing 100-120 km/week
It was actually after the iliopsoas injury that I sat down with a run coach, who knew my cycling background and strength, that actually suggested that I might be a better runner if I spent more time on the bike, really harnessing the aerobic benefits and hip strength it gave me, while spending less time on the run, but with a bit more specificity.
We limited my “workouts” to once per week, either a track session, or a threshold workout, and only had a long run on the weekend if I didn’t have too much bike stress. I was closer to 60-70k per week.
We had a really well controlled build going into the 5k, starting with 400s, progressing to 600, 800, 1200s, and the final workout before my 5k was only about 3k of total work, at goal pace.
We had a super nasty hot, smoky end of summer, which limited my volume quite a bit, then some personal stuff and super busy work schedule that limited my running the last few months.
Eg, over the course of 9 weeks, I ran 7 times. That said, I made a lot of them really count, pushing the runs I did to in order to limit how much I dropped off.
Now after 2 months low volume, and my 7 runs in 9 weeks, and a couple weeks of 2 runs a week, I managed a 10k in 38:40, mostly attributed to all the hard work I’ve been doing on the bike in conjunction with the few really hard runs I’ve managed. I’m also carrying a few more kilos than race weight.
Maintaining or at least limiting the hemorrhaging of fitness losses is much easier than building it in the first place.
Have my eyes on a spring race or two, so will be doing a bit of snow running!!
Great successful running story!
Overcome serious injury to become a very fast runner on you own terms!
Have been feeling particularly strong running lately…
Have another good session of tempo work this last Tuesday… 3x2 @ 6.50 to 6.55
Weather was a bit windy but col AF (for Florida)
Ended with 6.44, 6.44, 6.40…
I never felt over taxed of in danger of.not making it…
I think this was truly a tempo pace 6.40 to 6.45 range)
I’m new to the forums here!
I’m a triathlete at heart but I’ve got a penance for crits; however, my running as of late has been wonky.
9/5/21–1:27:50 rock n roll half marathon Virginia Beach (I was running 7:30s comfortably as an easy run)
10/23/21–1:46 in a 70.3 run. Ended the big portion of my season until the spring.
Haven’t been able to run since then really. Even 8 mins mi are a strain to maintain. Extensive recovery and my legs are finally coming back, but I’m about to go on a strenuous 3 week work program and go snowboard in Colorado right after. Going to rebuild my base effectively from ground zero come New Years!
My goal is an early season gran fondo, spring crits, and the philly marathon November 2022.
Welcome to the thread 
Ran the obligatory Turkey Trot. Usually it’s in the lead up to a December Marathon but this year my marathon(s) were a month ago. Took a bit of a break before getting back into things for a December HM.
I never do any 5k specific work but always use this race as a test, or excuse, to redline. Wind conditions were less than ideal (20+ mph sustained) but managed a time im happy with; 17:49.
Seven out of the top 10 were in the 15-19 age group which makes me feel just a bit better about my time given that I’m in the 35-39 age group.
That’s an amazing time even without the wind, well done!
(Happy thanksgiving to the US people! May your naps be long and your gravy plentiful.)
killing me w/the mile splits 
I’ve been out of the US too long to remember mile pacing 
edit: and Happy 
day!
OK…
Ive been trying to wrap my head around it…
I know HR is not a great way to measure performance, and for that reason, trying to come up with a proper comparison to power is hard…
So, here I am… every running wo I feel stronger than before…
this morning was 1200m, did them all better than 6:17 mpm pace (goal was 6:20-6:30 pace)
HR was in absolute control peaking at 179 on the last set.
Yet, when I see the “magical numbers” on interval.icu, my fitness stayed flat…
Is there a better way to quantify overall fitness gains. I know its just a game, and number do not really matter, but I would like to see an upward trend when it comes to running and I am not seeing that, although my times seems to be dropping and they are now closer of my goals…
It’s got to be race results, time trial results, hasn’t it?
“Fitness” is really a very broad term with lots of factors and physiological components, so I would say performance is a better metric.
Yes… race >> any number.
But since most people dont get to race super often (i used to do shorter road races quite often few years ago) its hard to see the trend.
Sure, but it would be cool to see a number and see it go up?
Garmin’s running vo2 max? This comes partially from HR.
Plenty of coaches include 5k TTs every six weeks or so in the seasons training plan, so it’s possible.
This is probably the worst offender of all “magical numbers” as fitness indicators.
A friend just finished a half marathon… 1:23 and change… garmin estimation based on his “vo2max” 1.35.
My numbers say I can run a 5k in 17:45 and a half in 1.2x… very amusing to share this with friends who are significantly faster than me.
Yeah.
I have a 2 mile race (Dec 18) that will be use as a TT followed by a 1 mile race, also a TT, a week later.
But I would love to see a magical number that would be closer to reality…
Hey guys,
Since it’s begun to be really cold outside, I thought I’d give structured treadmill training a go. I was wondering if anyone has done something similar to the ramp test to determine their FTP (FT “Pace”) on the treadmill. Essentially a metric other than HR that I can track, and determine all my training zones from!
Any help is appreciated, cheers!
Yeah, my coach includes 5k TTs fairly frequently, more so if I’m doing a lot of harder sessions.
Another thing you can do is do a benchmark workout every week- something like a 5 x 1k, track session, or a longer tempo run on the same course- as long as it stays relatively consistent over the course of a month or so. There might be some minor differences in pace vs HR, but overall trends are usually pretty clear. My coach usually has me track them manually in a spreadsheet, which helps at a glance.
IMO there’s no singular number/metric for any sport that can give you that kind of insight- it’s just a matter of interpreting long term trends in the context of what you’re actually trying to improve.
Hey Calin, I’m a fan of treadmill training but I’m afraid my answer is the same as to Joel - I’ve done 5k, 10k and half marathon time trials on the treadmill and Zwift Run races to see where I’m at and it’s been no different to outdoors. With proper ventilation (the strong fans we use for indoor cycling) and a reasonable treadmill I think the differences to outside are insignificant. My half marathons indoor and outdoor were within seconds of each other in the spring of 2019.