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80 grams isnât crazy, and scientists and researchers arenât exactly people Iâd call crazy. You make it sound like 80g an hour is the same as drinking a bottle of whiskey and two tablespoons of mercury every hour you ride.
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Can you post some of them that donât also include weight gain?
Caloric balance is the issue.
When you go from eating enough daily to offset your training kcal burn, while consuming little on the bike, to all of a sudden consuming 300-500kcal per hour on the bike, itâs very easy to end up in a kcal surplus.
@Bandusa,
Iâm glad you got blood tests done. And Iâm glad you posted here. Hope I can help a bit.
Did your weight range increase during this high-carb fueling test period? If yes, target reducing that, while also backing off the intra-carb fueling for now. Time is of the essence in getting blood sugar under control, so take it seriously. Beta cell death is not your friend.
Distantly secondary: Did your macronutrient composition shift at all when consuming more carbs on bike? Guessing yes, slightly, with reduced fiber and protein intake.
Recommendations:
- Reduce intra-workout fueling until your a1c and fasting glucose are acceptable by your doctor.
- Consume fewer kcal daily. Do so consistently, until youâve reduced weight to at or slightly below your prior optimal racing weights listed.
- Consume no sugar off the bike, ever. If you decide to not listen to that recommendation, just do it infrequently.
- Consume more protein.
- Consume more fiber.
- Consume less saturated fat, and maybe less fat in general, to help keep kcal lower while you seek a bit of weight loss.
- Veggies are low kcal, high fiber, super healthy for 100âs of known and unknown reasons, but most of all, when seeking weight loss, they make a great filler for a hungry stomach. Consume plenty.
- Do all of the above until you achieve acceptable a1c, fasting glucose, triglycerides, and body weight. If you decide to increase intra-workout fueling again in the future, donât get down in the weeds about sugar choices. Focus on just offsetting the sugar consumption on the bike with reduced kcal intake elsewhere in the diet.
- If hungry, and struggling to maintain weight, itâs perfectly acceptable to not fuel as much, and just eat more solid food off the bike, rather than fueling âoptimally.â âOptimalâ performance fueling is only optimal if youâre not gaining weight, and your blood panel looks good. Otherwise performance will absolutely be better with less fuel because blood panel results and body weight will be better.
PhD in Sport Phys here! Specializing in endurance nutrition, cat 3 cyclist, married to registered dietitian specializing in weight management in exercising population, pro cyclist & elite age group triathlete â> âcrazy recommendation from random pplâ 
Hereâs 26 more PhDâs because youâre right, you shouldnât listen to just one guy on the web, so I admire you there.
Iâll see them and raise them to 120g/hr and probably higher for events in the 3-5hr range, especially in cooler climates.
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I donât recall post by post or person by person, BUT I know you post on slowtwitch and that is one of the places where Iâve read people having issues over the years - I donât have a direct source to cite though, other than handle âxxxxxxxâ said so and so online. If youâre looking for studies or anything like that, sorry to disappoint - plenty of folks that do things like gain weight during marathon training because they think they need to do some certain protocol though. Best of luck in your search - itâs out there.
Thank you fir your wise advice. I am cutting a great deal in every area. Every other part of my blood work was âexceptionalâ.
I am going to kick this stuff out ASAP and havenât wasted a minute.
Thanks!
Jim
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You werenât responding to me here, so this isnât me doing a âgotchaâ but just using it to strengthen my point above.
The study said to attenuate calorie deficit, marathon runners are reccomended to consume 30-50g carbs an hour. (paraphrased)
Seems like my points above where I said if you arenât asking your body to perform maximally, then 40-60g/hour is quite reasonable!
Will be much healthier and better for your teeth than regular sugar consumption, as you can actually eat solids consistently at that consumption.
I note in the study above different recommendations for racing and training.
Is your argument here that 60g per hr is totally reasonable and 80 is outrageously high?
By the way, whether youâre consuming liquid carbs or solid carbs, itâs all sugar.
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I think youre getting good advice here (that is, lower it as your doc suggested).
I think 80g carb per hour is pretty intense for an amateur athlete / hobbyist. I am pretty passionate about cycling, but I dont follow a lot of the advice you see in the popular cycling media / sources. I think much of it is trickled down from pro level athletes programs, but not applicable for hobbyists. It might work for amateurs too, but these actions have consequences that probably do not balance out.
I donât doubt there is some science study showing a statistically significant effect on more carbs relative to less carbs on some performance metrics, but it is simply not worth the while to get that benefit at the cost of your general health. However, if you were getting 6 figures + to ride your bike (pro level), then sure you could go do it for a decade or so.
Total anecdote here, but one with a pretty large number of people, and youâll have to take me at my word (so not worth very much):
I have worked with several hundred folks 1:1 as a diet coach, maybe 5% of which had >4W/kg 20min power, and have prescribed anywhere from 50-120g per hour for 90+ minute sessions during effective weight loss diets.
Cool. Thatâs kind of what I was thinking. All those posts that I have seen has involved weight gain.
I suspect I ought to be more clear when recommending increased intra-workout fueling, that there needs to be a concomitant reduction in kcal consumption outside of training, though usually slightly less than the increase on the bike due to increased kcal burn as a result of better fueling, as well as probably higher post-exercise metabolic rate due to increased cellular adaptations.
Thank you for bringing to the forefront of my attention. Iâll consider this when posting in the future.
I have a 3.1 W/kg and drink 20-40% more carbs per hour than he does.
Youâre totally right.
Thankfully, neither was that the audience of that paper I cited.
Nor was it the reason that I mentioned my wife was a higher level cyclist.
I mentioned her athleticism to clarify that ârandom pplâ â âsport scientists with very relevant sporting experience.â
For context to all reading here, the average W/kg of my clients is probably 2.4W/kg, if I had to guess. Probably 50-60% female, 40-50% male. They all lose weight and improve blood panel results with higher carb fueling strategies. In fact, I use a higher carb fueling strategy specifically as a means to weight loss in most folks because it controls hunger for a lot of folks since hypoglycemia during and post-exercise is a powerful stimulant of hunger.
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Would you mind explaining this line of thinking, Iâm not an expert but I donât follow. If an amateur athlete is doing 1 hour of high intensity, you will still be in the hole for calories even after consuming 80g of carbs. Why would that be intense? Unless youâre referring to OP weight gain. Sorry I may have missed part of the convo
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Iâm sure it is. I certainly never said otherwise- best of luck with your search.
@cub I agree that the athlete will be in a calorie deficit (and no nutrition plan aims for full replacement).
When I say intense, I mean that the benefit < cost; it âsounds likeâ an extreme thing to be doing; it may have health consequences that do not meet the gains (its not normal or typical).
Basically, OPs blood work suggests they are pre-diabetic. The nutrition plan may not necessarily be the cause, but as the doctor pointed out and is generally accepted, a high carb load over time is associated with high a1c and elevated blood sugar levels. OP prob rode a bit faster for a bit longer with the nutrition plan (benefit), but is now pre-diabetic (cost). There may have been a relationship between the two. If OP stops or decreases their on the bike nutrition, it is confirmation that the benefit<cost for them.
FWIW, I think this happens over a long period of time. I donât think if you go drink lots of sugar on your long ride once a week or during a race youâll be pre-diabetic, but doing it with a certain frequency for a long enough duration will increase the odds.
An analogy to the extreme/intense nutrition plan would be a higher training volume relative to what I do now. I would not argue against the fact that if I increased my average training load from 10 hours per week (hpw) to 20-25 hpw (amateur â pro) that I would have an increase in my ftp (benefit). However, I would have to give up time with my family, other hobbies and (some of) my ability to concentrate in the office during my 9-5 job, etc (cost). It might not be the best long run choice. Again, FWIW, people already probably think my training is intense, but pushing it up higher would certainly be even more so!
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I use this chart and its worked really well. Please PLEASE donât listen to the wackos that say you donât need to fuel your rides. Generally, 60 mins or under can be fueled with your glycogen stores. BUT if that 60 min ride is some crazy threshold work or v02, carbs could help you. The simple matter is that when you have carbs in your system, regardless of length/ intensity, the body performs better. Download RP Strengthâs Endurance e-book by Dr Alex Harrison. He created the chart below as a GENERAL guideline. Itâs the only book on nutrition you will ever need for sport performance
ALSO: if you are gaining weight, youâre putting in more cals than youâre burning. Simplest equation ever.
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Who is this Dr. Alex Harrison guy? Sounds shifty to me.
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@Dr_Alex_Harrison on Instagram
Can assure you that I am shifty with regard to my physical location⌠per #rvlife standards.
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Glad itâs not just my dog that does that. Does your dog do the thing where she comes up to you like she wants to be petted but then she spins around real quick so that youâre rubbing her butt instead?
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100% yes.
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