This is likely individual to you (or your type of riders) 
I myself am slow very long distance rider in forever base loop → average FTP, good TTE → at the end of summer can work up to Unicorn (1x70 at 96%) or Velika (2x40 at 98%) and yet AI FTP remains same, confirmed with KM test. Because of this, I really trust AI FTP, don’t even bother confirming with other tests anymore.
It consistently over tested for me. Ramp tests did too. I’ve gone back to doing long form tests. It also gives me the confidence to know my FTP is correct, which means my zones are correct, which means I should be able to do the workout with the appropriate RPE. Once things start feeling too hard or too easy, I pretty confidently know it’s time to test again!
For what it’s worth, I find “long suprathreshold” workouts like Dicks with 8-minute intervals at 105% of FTP pretty challenging.
8 minutes at 105% is much different than 8 minutes at 100%… 
Absolutely, above FTP, every percentage point is precious 
I do… but I did a ride when my powermeter wasn’t calibrated and I have very wonky numbers - much higher than anything I’d normally put out - haven’t worked out how to delete that ride from intervals.icu.
If you go to that ride, click on the "actions’ menu at the bottom right, then “settings”, and there’s a check box to ignore power.
You can also just delete the whole ride from the same ‘Actions’ menu
Thanks! I’ll do this and post the results later.
I personally find 90-95% intervals extremely powerful. Especially if you can build them to 70,80,90 min. But I think there is a time and place for that. For instance, during my Ironman build they helped build great muscular endurance and helped push the threshold up while saving some energy for the two other sports. I really consider that sub threshold work though, high sst, and a different animal than true threshold intervals. True threshold intervals at or close to 100% can be a nice stimulus after coming off subthreshold work. But both require a very accurate perception of what your threshold is. After a few sessions of a threshold day at 100% you’ll very clearly get a feel for if your ftp is set accurately or not.
Recalculated and my eFTP is just shy of 200, but I haven’t really had many non-zone 2 rides in the last 3 months. My TR AI autodetect is about 15 watts higher.
Well, if you’re struggling with the aiftp, I’d say that the eFTP on intervals is the corrected one.
Intervals is spot on for me, always.
This is not uncommon.
Anecdotally, there are two general groups of cyclists. Those who can do threshold work forever but die when doing VO2. And those who can do VO2 every week but die when doing threshold.
For me 4x4min of VO2 work, where my HR is > 90% max is something I can do pretty easily whenever i want. I gather this workout kills many other people though.
But then 20min at a bit below threshold (and my HR never exceeds LTHR) is something that I completely suffer through and will avoid doing at all costs.
There are probably some physiological reasons for this. But I think there is a psychological difference as well. Some people tend to prefer extreme pain for a short period of time, over mild pain for a long time. And vice versa. I think this is probably the main difference honestly.
Relieved to see this comment. I read through the comments about OP’s thoughts on “easy” VO2 with increasing dismay. Blanket answer here and everywhere else this topic comes up seems to be “Yeah, you’re wrong. Your FTP is too high.” I think that’s a rather blunt, unsophisticated assessment of something complex and (sorry guys…) probably unknowable. I wish we could all be boiled down into a neat set of formulas and numbers, too. But sometimes things just don’t add up and it’s okay. I count myself as one of the “VO2 ain’t that hard, it’s threshold that destroys my soul” people. I’m pretty sure it’s 80% mental, but whatever. My very experienced coach has not bumped my FTP down because I tend to blast through VO2 max workouts like a boss without much panic. They’re certainly hard, but almost fun for me. And I get an immediate dopamine hit with each short interval I successfully complete. Yes, please. And yeah, I can complete 20+ minute threshold efforts but I freaking hate them. Extended panic and anguish. They’re just gross 
. It’s not an FTP problem, it’s just a type of work that I need to get more comfortable doing and I suspect the work to be done is mostly psychological. And thinking on this further, because I mostly enjoy VO2 work, I’d be really bummed out if I had to drop my FTP to make it easier to complete the type of workouts I don’t enjoy as much. VO2 would be a lot less “fun” and the threshold work would only be “slightly less awful.”
What causes so much confusion is that there’s really two different types of VO2max workouts:
What most good coaches mean when they say “VO2max” is the physiological state (definition 2), while what most lay people think is the non-customized power zone (106-120%). That’s just wrong. If I do 5 minutes at 120% I can still speak in full sentences. If I do true VO2max then I have trouble saying two words at a time. They are not the same thing.
Kolie Moore did give a bit of guidance to customize intervals to achieve true VO2max. [I may have this slightly wrong, go listen to the Empirical Cycling VO2max episodes for yourself]. Pick an interval duration (say 5 minutes). Then look at your mean-max power on your Power-Duration curve for that time. Take 90% of that value as your rough power target. You still need to go all out, but a repeatable all out that can be more or less sustained for the interval length. You have to be breathing really hard, gasping for air during the intervals, 9-10/10 RPE.
The thing, it is as simple as that.
The definition of FTP or MLSS is that it’s your maximal steady state. I don’t want to debate exact definitions of FTP but let’s say the time to exhaustion is somewhere between 30 and 60 minutes.
If one is struggling with 8, 10, or even 20 minutes at FTP then it’s not your FTP. You shouldn’t be struggling at minute 20, physically or mentally, when you should be able to do 40 minutes. You are struggling because you are riding above your FTP or steady state. Riding at one’s actual FTP should feel like a 7/10ths effort. It should feel like a good pace but one that you could ride at for ‘about an hour’.
The root of the problem is riders with above average anaerobic capacity will bust all the shorter FTP test (ramp, 8 minute, 20 minute) and end up with a higher FTP than they can actually sustain for long duration intervals. It’s just not their true FTP. TR went ramp because nobody wanted to do a 20 minute test and now they have gone AI.
With proper testing, it is certainly knowable. Hint: Kolie Moore 40+ test.
I completely disagree here. Pretty much anyone on this board with some training should be able to ride at a 7/10ths effort for 20 or 30 minutes. 7/10ths shouldn’t be a soul crushing psychological battle. If one can’t do it, then they are going too hard and it’s not your FTP by definition.
If I do true VO2max (which the I have trouble saying two words at a time…
You have to be breathing really hard, gasping for air during the intervals, 9-10/10 RPE.
Yep. And doing that for 4-5min, a few times in a row is much easier/preferred for some of us, than doing 2x20 @ Alpe du Zwift pace.
Again, while there may be physiological differences, I suspect the main difference is psychological and relates to pain perception/tolerance differences.
Not enough base, maybe?
Now, 2 years later, depending what kind of block I have done recently, long Z4 intervals limiter is usually muscular endurance or breathing, if I wander too long slightly above actual threshold.
Rpe on threshold intervals is pretty personal. Sometimes on longer intervals my rpe drops after 20 minutes, 20 to 40mins might feel easy until I’m getting closer to my tte.
But if I’m going slightly over my FTP it always hits me at about 12-15min mark, I’m doing fine then suddenly it gets really hard.
Don’t over complicate it, if you’re struggling to finish some interval set just lower the power until you can. Oh do a mini carb load before these sessions makes a huge difference.
I’m not saying it’s mathematically correct and period. It was another layer to check if his FTP was set to high, which I think it is.
I understand the theory behind being able to do VO2 easily but struggling with FTP intervals. But I don’t think the answer is: ok, I’m good at short power, my thing is VO2 intervals and FTP I just can’t.
IMO the answer is: FTP @95% is about the same as 100%, perception is king and that’s why ERG mode is so contraproductive.
If you find VO2 easy, sorry, doesn’t matter your characteristics, you’re doing it wrong. You might be doing suprathreshold intervals, which are valid, but not real VO2 work. I also understand the idea of maintenance and improvements.
Get a hill where you can push 5min without interruptions, do it 5 times all-out with 5 min of recovery. If you still found it easy, hats off!
