Can anyone explain the difference in gain between doing a threshold session with intervals at 100% or 90% of FTP?
Have just listened to the time crunched cyclist which talked about sessions at 100%.
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]Being time crunched, I’m guessing that they’d have one do fewer minutes of intervals at 100% versus maybe more minutes at 90%.
I don’t know how much difference the training effect would be - I don’t think it’s much as training consistency trumps executing workouts at 100% precision. I follow CTS on instagram and they had a great post recently, not sure if it’ll link correctly but here it is:
CTS (@cts_trainright) • Instagram photos and videos
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Personally, I like 90-95% for extensive work. You get 98% of the benefit for 85% of the fatigue.
If you do intervals right at FTP, you need a very well tested/calibrated FTP and you need to guzzle a ton of carbs.
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For the gains in the physical aspect I’d do the 90 - 95% route however mentally, if you can do them at 100% and recover fully that may make it easier when trying to push the ceiling and start doing 105% intervals. I had a coach that wanted me doing 1x10@105% immediately followed by a 1x20@90% which was brutal both mentally and physically but that prescription did wonders for me.
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Thanks for the replies folks. I’ll go with the 95% to start - I’m pretty new to extended threshold work having really struggled in the past but have been doing a lot of zone 2 work so should be better at TH.
This sounds pretty hard: [quote=“Gator17, post:5, topic:95537”]
1x10@105% immediately followed by a 1x20@90% which was brutal both mentally and physically but that prescription did wonders for me.
[/quote]
I’m planning on doing 2 high intensity workouts a week in addition to hopefully 2 zone2 rides - 1 TH workout and 1 VO2Max per week - any thoughts on the efficacy of that rather than 2 TH workouts a week?
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I’d say if you’re going with that prescription pay close attention to your fatigue and don’t be afraid to supplant an intensity session with a recovery ride of your body is telling you to.
VO2 and threshold can be quite taxing even on a low volume approach as the VO2 will be above threshold and then your 90-95% self prescription. The fatigue will accumulate.
My advice would be to determine what you are trying to improve, if any, or maintain and set your training towards achieving that rather than an arbitrary VO2 or threshold session.
If trying to improve threshold then work towards that. Same goes for VO2, TTE etc
Good luck
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Current zeitgeist seems to prefer just below threshold.
As for measuring “difference in gain” I think you’re asking too much of our understanding of physiology. The difference (across a population) would likely be negligible but the slightly lower effort being more achievable, repeatable and recoverable makes it the cost/benefit winner.
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It depends on what you’re goal is, and where your weaknesses lay - the TR plans do the thinking for you - you can have a look at what they prescribe for different types of event and compare to your own plan.
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100% of FTP would be right at your Threshold power. It’s a great zone to train (particularly for time trialists and climbers), but it can be quite taxing work that necessitates proper recovery.
90% of FTP would be in your “Sweet Spot” zone – above Tempo, but not quite at Threshold power. As @AJS914 said, you can get a lot of the same benefits of Threshold work but with less substantial fatigue.
These couple of articles have some more info you may find useful:
- Threshold Training for Cyclists: Intervals, Workouts, and Tips for Success
- What Is Sweet Spot Training: Everything You Need to Know
As for your proposed training plan question, it depends on what your goals are. Generally, we recommend tailoring your workouts to what you’d like to build your fitness towards (e.g., long climbs, short repeated efforts, etc). As @JoeX mentioned, Plan Builder can help you with getting that set up. 
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My weakness is extended sessions. I find VO2 Max work relatively easy, but long (8min +) threshold sessions very difficult, both physically and mentally. I’m also 48 and have read that riders of my age need to do VO2Max sessions every 7 to 10 days.
EDIT: Also, I appreciate that sweetspot is 90% - should have been clearer that my question is Threshold at 95% or 100% of FTP.
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General training advice doesn’t always map across, there are only a few general principles that always apply; consistency, progressive overload, for example.
Vo2 intervals would fit into most training schedules but not necessarily every week. I was doing a Build phase recently for a half Ironman which had one vo2 and one threshold workout - now I’m in Speciality and the last 6 weeks to race day the focus is one tempo and one threshold as I will be racing at around tempo effort. But no vo2 week to week.
If you start at a low enough level, those threshold workouts can be progressed from a manageable interval up to 10-12 minutes over time.
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Umm, then you’re doing them wrong.
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95% or 100%?
My hot take is, whatever wattage a) feels more or less like threshold; while b) being something that you can progress from, say, 3 Ă— 10 in Week One out to, say, 2 Ă— 30 or 1 Ă— 45 in Week Eight of your FTP Block.
To my mind, it’s better threshold training to prioritise b), not a). 60 minutes work at 290w will do more good than 30 minutes at 300w.
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That depends. This is the problem with calling a zone VO2 Max. If they’re doing a workout that prescribes 4 minutes @106% FTP, that is in the “VO2 Max zone (zone 5)”, but many of us would consider it fairly easy, and a lot of training plans call for this kind of workout.
Now, if you’re actually trying to train to increase your VO2 max, that’s a whole different ballgame.
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For last month, I have progressed suprathreshold once a week (102-105% 4x8 → 4x9 → 4x10) and with each workout, Garmin claims my VO2max has improved (58 → 60) i.e. hold interval duration long enough and even lower intensity does the stuff.
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Time for a 5 minute max test 
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This is a common problem where riders frequently ride “too hard” all the time. Therefore you have an under-developed aerobic base. The question I might suggest you ask is Z2 or Threshold, not Sweet Spot or Threshold. I might suggest you start doing a lot of 65%-75% to build your base. Focusing on Threshold won’t efficiently address the imbalance you are describing. Once you feel like you can handle long z2 sessions without it feeling “hard,” i like 90% progressions. Its definitely possible to repeat 1 hour time in zone at 90% on a regular basis. Not so much 95% or 100%.
Or riders simply don’t have a well measured FTP.
Threshold should be a 7/10th effort - the first 8 minutes should feel fairly easy - even the 2nd and 3rd 8 minutes. Maybe you feel some struggle at the end of the last interval or two.
Thus if 8 minutes at FTP is that physically taxing, then FTP is probably over stated.
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I think you’re misreading. I’ve done a lot of Z2 recently which has had tangible benefits in maintaining high effort intervals, but for various reasons I’ve not done blocks of TH sessions.
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