I have been using TR and an OG Neo for a few years now. I can’t remember the last time I’ve turned off Erg in TR. I decided to do it this weekend, and I feel like I’m doing something wrong. With Erg off, I have to dial the “resistance” slider all the way down to about 12% just to get my small ring/28 combo to go to less than 150watts. If I push it to 100%, I have to stand up just to spin the pedals. Am I doing something wrong? What “%” is the default setting?
I haven’t had this totally confirmed by TR, but my take on the Resistance percentage is to think of it like setting the trainer brake at whatever the percentage is, based upon the max. For the Neo, that is around 2200w max IIRC:
- 10% is around 220w resistance
- 50% is around 1100w resistance
This is purely based on my experience, and will also vary with the specific gearing used in the moment 9 Higher gear = harder).
They supposedly adopted a unique default percentage based upon the trainer type, but from memory, it is usually around 10-20% default from my use with various trainers. Just choose a number that works for you, and don’t worry what it actually is.
The default is 50%, IIRC.
Yes, I have mine at 14% which gives me around FTP in the big ring, middle cassette, around 85rpm.
I’m on the Neo 2T.
Edit: Still wishing for a sim mode slope.
Double Edit: The reason is that for sprints, I have dial it up to 40-50%, and it becomes a nightmare to manage.
This was my next question! I was miserable the entire ride because every time I stood up for booty relief, I had to adjust the slider to get enough watts to support me and keep me on target for the interval, and then adjust it again when I say back down, again, to get back on target for the interval. It reminded me of being on a Peloton, where you have to spin the knob to get the right resistance, and you’re constantly tweaking it to get it just right. I would lean way forward while pedaling to slide the slider on my laptop with my finger. My goal was 12%, but i would slide it to 15%, then 10%, then 13%, then 11%, and then my desired 12%. Over and over again. Total PITA and to be honest, it ruined the ride. I guess I will stick to Erg!
Yes, standard/slope mode on Kickr is really nice. I’ve thought about selling Kickr and buying Neo, however I don’t see an explicit slope mode being support (TrainerRoad or not). Searched Tacx docs and there isn’t much info on Neo modes.
For standing breaks, are you shifting or leaving it in the same gear?
If you are not shifting, it is my recommendation to shift into harder gearing, just like we do when riding outside.
- I train in the small ring usually, and just apply a front shift when I stand. It lets me drop my cadence about 30 rpm, while still being super close to the power target, even in RES mode (and I use it in ERG mode too).
- Alternatively, a shift up around 3 gears on the rear gets similar change (but this varies on each cassette and where you are at the normal seated cadence).
So, I recommend at least testing the shifting for pure standing efforts. It also can be applied in sprint type efforts, to reduce the need to tweak the RES setting.
Yeah, Neo doesn’t have a standard mode, and slope is only done in sim mode. It needs the rider weight for the sim mode for the virtual flywheel.
But, I would think KICKR would have the same issue going forward (with no standard mode) that it’s moved to “the standard” protocols. Unfortunately, I no longer have a KICKr to validate anything with regards to Wahoo.
Yes, when I shifted, even to the big/11, I was still a good 100 watts below target. I had to bring the slider in to prevent that.
- Dang, that’s a bummer.
- I have the Neo2 set on my wife’s station, and used it mainly in ERG or SIM mode when I ran it for a while. Seems their setup may not handle the changes the same as my Kickr or H2.
- Yup, from what I gather on the 2018 & 2020 models, the latest firmware doing the change you mention ditches the Standard/Level mode. We’ve seen more than a few comments in the forum about the issue, unfortunately. It sure seems like a great mode, and it’s a shame it’s not more supported or widely available.
Standard/level/slope mode still works with Wahoo app and a few other apps (I’ve read that, haven’t tried myself). AFAIK Wahoo didn’t remove proprietary protocol, they merely added FTMS support. The issue with TrainerRoad is that TR app won’t use the older protocol now. In the Wahoo app I can set it to level=2 at the beginning of a workout, and ride on.
So IIRC, this isn’t a problem in Zwift. (I could be wrong…it’s been at least 6 months since I Zwifted and that was mostly in Erg). Am I wrong?
That’s true. Sometimes I do use the TACX app, which has all the modes as well. But, with Neo…the minute I close the app, it resets everything to something around 0%, which means I need to leave it connected for the whole workout. That kind of sucks. Slope 2 is pretty darn good for most everything.
I’ve taken up Zwift again, at least it’s “slope mode” there, once ERG goes off. But, I still swear it changes very slightly by terrain, because the power is all over the place when I hold cadence…unlike using TR or the TACX training app.
- Correct, because Zwift uses Simulation mode, which is not the same as the Standard/Level mode.
So it’s a TR thing, not a trainer thing? Just trying to get my head around what fixes the problem.
I need to run a TR ride to my Garmin and let Garmin control the Neo and see what happens.
Not entirely, it’s primarily protocol thing, but it also happens that Neo doesn’t support Standard modes. The Standard BT FTMS and ANT+ FE-C does not support Standard mode. It has ERG, Resistance, and Sim modes. There are proprietary protocols, but TR has always said they want to get away from that.
Knock yourself out. It sucks, but try it and decide for yourself. The biggest problem I had was the resetting to ERG mode for each interval step, and the massive PITA it is to toggle to different modes with the headunit UI. I can’t recall if it had slope mode.
The best case, for Garmin, is just using it for metrics (power, cadence, etc.), and using a different app to control the trainer.
I don’t switch between modes, set it in standard/slope/level mode at the beginning and start training. Has worked well for me with all workouts. Haven’t tried using Garmin to set the level (assuming its possible), as I find it easier to use a separate app to set the level and then quit the app.
IIRC, you don’t use the Garmin to control the trainer, meaning you don’t pair it as a trainer.
Correct, this is what I do:
- get on the bike
- turn on trainer
- turn on Garmin
- use app on phone to set standard/slope mode and set level
- quit app (force quit on iPhone if using Wahoo app because it requires you to start recording to set mode)
- start recording on Garmin
- ride on
Yeah, that’s what I said to do too. Pairing it as a trainer in Garmin is a bad experience, IME. Well, unless you only want to do ERG, and in that case it’s pretty good too.