I have been using TR and an OG Neo for a few years now. I can’t remember the last time I’ve turned off Erg in TR. I decided to do it this weekend, and I feel like I’m doing something wrong. With Erg off, I have to dial the “resistance” slider all the way down to about 12% just to get my small ring/28 combo to go to less than 150watts. If I push it to 100%, I have to stand up just to spin the pedals. Am I doing something wrong? What “%” is the default setting?
I haven’t had this totally confirmed by TR, but my take on the Resistance percentage is to think of it like setting the trainer brake at whatever the percentage is, based upon the max. For the Neo, that is around 2200w max IIRC:
- 10% is around 220w resistance
- 50% is around 1100w resistance
- etc.
This is purely based on my experience, and will also vary with the specific gearing used in the moment 9 Higher gear = harder).
They supposedly adopted a unique default percentage based upon the trainer type, but from memory, it is usually around 10-20% default from my use with various trainers. Just choose a number that works for you, and don’t worry what it actually is.
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This was my next question! I was miserable the entire ride because every time I stood up for booty relief, I had to adjust the slider to get enough watts to support me and keep me on target for the interval, and then adjust it again when I say back down, again, to get back on target for the interval. It reminded me of being on a Peloton, where you have to spin the knob to get the right resistance, and you’re constantly tweaking it to get it just right. I would lean way forward while pedaling to slide the slider on my laptop with my finger. My goal was 12%, but i would slide it to 15%, then 10%, then 13%, then 11%, and then my desired 12%. Over and over again. Total PITA and to be honest, it ruined the ride. I guess I will stick to Erg!
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Yes, standard/slope mode on Kickr is really nice. I’ve thought about selling Kickr and buying Neo, however I don’t see an explicit slope mode being support (TrainerRoad or not). Searched Tacx docs and there isn’t much info on Neo modes.
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For standing breaks, are you shifting or leaving it in the same gear?
If you are not shifting, it is my recommendation to shift into harder gearing, just like we do when riding outside.
- I train in the small ring usually, and just apply a front shift when I stand. It lets me drop my cadence about 30 rpm, while still being super close to the power target, even in RES mode (and I use it in ERG mode too).
- Alternatively, a shift up around 3 gears on the rear gets similar change (but this varies on each cassette and where you are at the normal seated cadence).
So, I recommend at least testing the shifting for pure standing efforts. It also can be applied in sprint type efforts, to reduce the need to tweak the RES setting.
Yes, when I shifted, even to the big/11, I was still a good 100 watts below target. I had to bring the slider in to prevent that.
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- Dang, that’s a bummer.
- I have the Neo2 set on my wife’s station, and used it mainly in ERG or SIM mode when I ran it for a while. Seems their setup may not handle the changes the same as my Kickr or H2.
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- Yup, from what I gather on the 2018 & 2020 models, the latest firmware doing the change you mention ditches the Standard/Level mode. We’ve seen more than a few comments in the forum about the issue, unfortunately. It sure seems like a great mode, and it’s a shame it’s not more supported or widely available.
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Standard/level/slope mode still works with Wahoo app and a few other apps (I’ve read that, haven’t tried myself). AFAIK Wahoo didn’t remove proprietary protocol, they merely added FTMS support. The issue with TrainerRoad is that TR app won’t use the older protocol now. In the Wahoo app I can set it to level=2 at the beginning of a workout, and ride on.
So IIRC, this isn’t a problem in Zwift. (I could be wrong…it’s been at least 6 months since I Zwifted and that was mostly in Erg). Am I wrong?
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- Correct, because Zwift uses Simulation mode, which is not the same as the Standard/Level mode.
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So it’s a TR thing, not a trainer thing? Just trying to get my head around what fixes the problem.
I need to run a TR ride to my Garmin and let Garmin control the Neo and see what happens.
I don’t switch between modes, set it in standard/slope/level mode at the beginning and start training. Has worked well for me with all workouts. Haven’t tried using Garmin to set the level (assuming its possible), as I find it easier to use a separate app to set the level and then quit the app.
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Correct, this is what I do:
- get on the bike
- turn on trainer
- turn on Garmin
- use app on phone to set standard/slope mode and set level
- quit app (force quit on iPhone if using Wahoo app because it requires you to start recording to set mode)
- start recording on Garmin
- ride on
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Help me out guys. I’m totally confused and I assume it’s just me since there are so many people who swear Erg mode is bad and no one should use it.
Are you saying the only way to do a ride without Erg is in Zwift because it works with the proprietary mode Tacx uses but TR and Garmin do not?
Maybe it’s better for me to be clear on my goal. I want to do a ride, for simplicity, let’s say 2x20 mins at 95%FTP. I want to do that without using Erg. I THOUGHT I could just turn off Erg in TR and use my shifters on the bike, but that doesn’t work.
What should I be doing? I’d prefer not to pay for any new subscriptions (like Zwift) and stick to using TR. Thanks again for all your help. I’m sure I’m just being thick here…
Only if I manually adjust that resistance slider every time I stand up
- I don’t think that is right. I will try a quick summary of the options:
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ERG mode, controlled by a defined workout performed on a head unit (Garmin/Wahoo) or app (TR, Zwift Workout mode, Wahoo SYSTM, etc.). Shifting is generally avoided, with notable exceptions of trainers with wattage floor and ceiling issues, and shifting for low cadence work.
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RESISTANCE mode, set to a percentage, as controlled by a head unit (Garmin/Wahoo) or app (TR, Zwift Workout mode, Wahoo SYSTM, etc.). Shifting is necessary and required to hit desired power.
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SIMULATION mode, controlled by your position on an estimated road in a virtual world (like Zwift) or by an app with road & elevation data pulled from GPS data (Rouvy, Fulgaz, even a ride replayed by a cycling head unit). Shifting is necessary and required to hit desired power.
Within TR, you have options #1 & #2.
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That sure seems odd to me, but as I mentioned, I haven’t specifically tried it recently, so I might be missing something. It sure seems like this should work with basic RES setting and shifting.
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I will admit, that RES is not as good as Standard/Level mode and can take some more shifting and RES setting tweaks to hit the right range, but I have had decent luck with it on my other trainers (Kickr & H2). Not sure what might be causing the Neo to be less capable in this instance?
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Thanks! This is very helpful and I get it now. You’re right, it’s disappointing that you can’t do SIM/Standard/Slope mode (not sure which name is correct) in TR like you can do elsewhere.
Oddly, I just tested TR using my phone instead of the laptop and had much better results with swinging the wattage range with no manual adjustments. I wonder if that has something to do with Bluetooth (on the phone) vs. Ant+ (using the Tacx adaptor on my laptop)? I did go into the Tacx app first and play around with the settings, so I guess it’s possible that this reset something in the Neo too.
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I can’t explain why, but some users (DC Rainmaker among them IIRC) that different connection protocols can influence the results of trainer use. Sure worth a test for those that have more than one option. Sounds like your experience seems to align with that comment above.
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I’ll play some more tomorrow. It’s my rest day and I’ve spent too much time pedaling today!
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