Thinking of doing next sweet spot session just by feel and maybe HR cap and without looking at watts. Anybody done that with good experience?
I had a similar start.
Tried starting with a 4x5min and just imploded completely.
Flipped it around and did 5x3min for the next workout, 4x4min, and doing 4x5min today. Just building up 1) mental toughness and courage 2) TiZ.
All of these feel like 9/10 or 10/10 efforts so I know they are not wasted.
Once I got through that first one - which was coming off of a crit, stupid - everything has been dialed. I did back off to the lower number of reps but kept the same interval length. Doing the same block as last season, which is fine relative to where I am. Here’s week one, with the two 4x6s reduced to 3x6, and then a 4x5 yesterday. The last two workouts have been very high quality right up till the end when I start cracking, so I feel like this is the right amount of volume for me right now. (Week TSS is a little bit lower because the 4x6 became 3x6 and I didn’t edit the workouts beforehand.)
How are you setting resistance for these efforts? Have a starting point in mind and then slowly drifting lower over time?
Or are you going for constant power through erg after the hard start?
I’ve found my HR can be all over the map with respect to SST efforts. It’s not a bad idea, it’s just that when I go by how it feels, I find I can feel like something is pretty easy at 90% some days, or it can feel much harder and HR high but still achievable, just with more focus required due to cumulative fatigue. Depending on where I am in a training block, I might want to push through that fatigue moreso than what HR and RPE are telling me. So, as usual… it depends.
I started introducing tempo intervals into some of my longer rides this year, as well as some closer to 75% (LT1ish) into 3 and 4 hour rides and those have helped. I’ll continue to progress those as I raise my volume in the coming weeks… first adding another 3 hour ride and a 4 hour ride +two 2-hour rides with intervals and either 1 hour of Z2 or recovery depending on how I feel. Once I’m comfortable at that volume, I’ll start adding a little bit of tempo into the long rides again and bump another ride up to 2-3 hours.
But first, going from ~10hrs per week to ~12hrs per week, which is a substantial bump… I’ll give myself some time to adapt before progressing the long rides above Z2 again.
Definitely a great strategy for training fatigue resistance, adding a bit of intensity into the long rides… but it depends on the time of year and what other training you’re doing, as well.
At what percentage of FTP (or IF) you do these Z2 rides. 65? 70? Or does it depend on the duration of the ride? If you do larger volume, maybe just at 60%? So you don’t accumulate too much fatigue?
I’ll start at ~65% for the entire ride, go longer first, then look to raise the intensity a little bit. If I’m fatigued I’ll ride lower; feeling good, ride a little higher. I don’t do 3-4hr rides at or right below LT1. I do some shorter rides 60-120 min at LT1 (~73% for me right now), and will add periods of 20 min or so at that intensity to longer rides as I progress.
In general, though, I do my long rides by feel, staying below VT1 (conversation pace). I don’t stare at my power meter on those rides. I also usually like to “negative split” my long rides, raising the intensity slightly throughout. I might start at 60% then get up higher for most of the ride, and end around 70% or higher if I’m feeling good.
Best way to do long rides IMO. I’ve been doing 4 hour z2 rides this winter. Best executed rides have been 60-65% first two hours 65-70% last two hours. Usually end up 0.68-0.71 depending on how hilly the ride is.
What did you think of lactate testing? How often do you plan to test?
Ha, I didn’t test. I did the DFA a1 test using HRVlogger and am also drawing some conclusions based on VT1. So it’s an estimate, but frankly it’s good enough for most people’s purposes.
Maybe it’s just me, but to avoid confusion for endurance work I’d stick with % power and IF. In any case I think some (like me) could start at higher targets for two hour endurance rides.
How do you know your LT1?
Edit: Ah i read your reply to WindWarrior
If you think LT1 is important for training, you get tested. Otherwise if training with power, you do something else.
KM has a new podcast out today, with some interesting bits about testing, among a million of other things, obviously.
…but honestly, the more I learn about al the training principles and physiology etc, the more I think that there isn’t much wrong with just riding your bike. Sometimes ride hard, sometimes ride long, do some racing and some climbing…
Very experienced cyclists who are sensitive to ride feel and sensations as they relate to power can definitely get their training 95% correct by doing just that. If you know what threshold feels like, what conversation pace and/or “happy hard” feel like, what VO2max should feel like, you can go out and do your work.
Where most self-coached people fall short is in recovery, always thinking we are fresher than we really are and pushing too hard too often or for too long. Between the short-term recovery, and long-term periodization of training, I think that’s where the second set of eyes really helps see the whole forest… I still get lost in my own trees all the time…
Or as you said in the long LT1/LT2 thread, you do one of various methods to SWAG it, and attempt to reap the benefits of pushing a higher intensity (still zone 2) on your moderately long rides, or insert “intervals” of that type of work in your truly long rides. Whether you decide to do that high-end zone 2 intensity by % power, breathing/RPE/feel, heart rate, or get lactate drawn to actually determine LT1… etc… for a lot of people, you’re going to end up right around the same ballpark.
I just did that DFA a1 test out of interest, and wouldn’t you know it, it basically just confirmed what I already knew by feel. Sitting at 195-205W is a good spot for higher end endurance work for me right now! Your point is fair, and well-taken.
…I initially thought LT1 would be very very slow paced riding after all the Seiler ‘walk up hills’ stuff, but likewise, DFA-1a tells me its low tempo ‘happy fast’ pace… Now we can question if that is really finding LT1 and even today I see Marco Altini suggesting it might NOT be accurate enough to base training on, so there is that…
Oh yeah, a second pair of eyes can definitively be helpful. What I was getting at was more what you say in the reply to WW - there areots of different ways to test, but usually you end up in the right ballpark at some point.