Thanks. Looks like I need to start my VO2 block on 28th Feb latest then to be in the shape I want to for club training camp in Spain at end of April! Mid way through FTP TTE progression so should align…
when you have done a vo2 block. Do you have to go back to SST or FTP workouts?
Depends on your goals. Basically after vo2 max block you can see increase in your FTP and reduction of TTE. And there is also a case of timing - if not sst or ftp (or generally aerobic training) do not know what would you do rest of the year 
starting half feb with trainingraces and around half april-mei the first criteriums.
You don’t have to, it depends on the goal. If you’re looking to push FTP up, then yes. An aerobic build after your VO2 work will fill the cup. But you can build a stronger high power component with a higher aerobic ceiling as well - a rising tide lifts all boats. More of your high power efforts become aerobic preserving glycogen… push higher power longer….
FWIW, after my VO2 block recovery, I’ll do a block of FTP work, then planning a sustained high power block focused on lactate clearance and tolerance. Lots of 5-8 min efforts above FTP, some over unders, lots of Z2 and recovery. Then anaerobic build to polish things off into peak.
This weekend I managed 1 x 75 at 90% and it went well for the most part (6% decoupling, expected RPE). It’s still too early in the season (first event is end of May) to start throwing proper intensity.
So… where to next? What is your take/experience? I don’t feel like my FTP is that much higher than when I started. It’s just that my legs don’t tire quite as rapidly, if that makes sense!
- Is there any value in extending much further?
- Should I build back up in the upper end of the SS range (say 95%) until the intensity block?
I am currently doing exactly the same schedule. Done vo2 max block, done first part of sustained power (with 20% volume increase), now recovery week, and block of lactate clearance and I hope that I will be able to sustain higher volume (you know, life). Tip from the block - not every interval has to be the same lenght:) I have done workout with 15-20-15-10 all with different power (all in Z4) and it was very entertaining workout (workout stolen from Alex Wild)
Last weekend I have done, for variety, one of Tom Bell’s lactate clearance workout and it was fun!
What are you racing? What are your goals?
My next event is a paced grand fondo (160k / 2,000m) that’s going to be real challenge for my W/KG! 
Non of the climbs are very sustained though, they’re all rather short and punchy. The longest all day will be roughly 20 minute long. I’m also stuck inside for probably another two months and not too keen on exceeding 90-105 min on the trainer. I’ve done it last year and while I came out strong for Spring, I also had “never again” on mind towards the end of winter! I realize I’d benefit from longer rides, but that’s going to be for Spring. I’m still building base at this point, but the time-crunched version I guess, and I’m trying to make the best use of that time.
Given the constraints, you could push VO2max now. I don’t think it’s too early for that considering you’re looking at end of May. Raise your ceiling, then hit more FTP/TTE work in the spring. If you’re not keen on spending too long each day on your trainer, doing a hard-start VO2max progression alongside zone 2 riding is a good option for you.
Otherwise, you could do push your power up, raise power for shorter SST or even threshold intervals with some over-unders, while doing a maintenance session of sweet spot every couple of weeks.
As for your goal event, yeah, there’s value for you in pushing longer SST in the spring when you can manage it. But I totally get not wanting to spend a bunch of time spinning sweet spot on the trainer. 90 minutes is a long slog.
Thanks Kurt! Much appreciated!
What is everyone’s take on extending SS durations to match that of the target race? I see Fascat’s a proponent of this approach and it makes sense to me. Only thing is I need to arrive to the workout interval day super fresh to do 3+ hours of SS.
Also, how close to the A event should this be done? Considering I race mtb marathon SS is actually as race specific as it can get for me.
I mean, its a goal. But just because you can doesn’t mean you should unless its a very specific requirement for your race (ie. pacing strategy)
But I’d still rather have an overall higher FTP so I dont have to ride the entire race at SST (and even if lumpy have avg power at SST) and rather be doing it at tempo or endurance pace.
This means tracking my metrics, seeing my SST TiZ vs. TTE, seeing my mftp as % of vo2 to sort out when i need to look at moving on to either some intensive aerobic or VO2 type work, with the goal of overall building a bigger more sustainable FTP.
It has always struck me as a bit excessive, and in practice, I’m not sure they even really do that. At least they aren’t with my friend who is a FasCat athlete. They actually started him very conservatively relative to his fitness… then again, he’s on one of their off-the-shelf plans with consultation and not 1:1 coaching.
But, for certain types of racing - and marathon MTB could be one, half and full distance IM racing another - it does make some sense to be able to sustain 85ish% of FTP for 3 hours.
I’ll say this: I’ve always had amongst the strongest legs late in my longest events (5 hours) in spite of “only” ever doing 90 min of sweet spot in a sitting. THAT said, since my long term goal is Kona qualification, I’ll push it out to 2hrs+ at 90% and ultimately 75-85% for a lot longer than that.
Thanks. It absolutely makes sense what you’re saying of not going overboard in a single session. Also because assuming the workout is on Saturday, on the following day you’ll be wasted and no train at all…
Still as I will return to SS when closer to my event, there remains the doubt in me, especially when the folks at Fascat say the following (from their website):
“For example, if a category 2 mountain biker can only perform 90 minutes of sweet spot intervals in training, they should pace a 5-hour race so that they do not exceed 90 - 110 minutes of sweet spot intensity.”
and then
“Amateur riders should use sweet spot intervals to progress with as much sweet spot workload as they can and then use the knowledge of their limits on race day”
It’s not really clear then, should one extend to as much as possible/needed in training considering that SS, or just below SS, is the ideal pace strategy for them or play it safe and target a lower %FTP for events that focus on sustained power (i.e. MTB marathon but also the typical Gran Fondo in Europe with tons of steady climbing)?
I think that blog, which I’ve read probably half a dozen times, uses a lot of words to say “It depends on what you need and the specificity of your race.”
It also depends on the time of year… during late base, it makes sense to work muscular endurance (ME), so that might drive you to longer SST sessions of 90+ min. But, using the crit racer example, in-season, why would I do 90 min of SST to train for 60 minute races? You probably don’t want to incur that level of fatigue for maintenance riding, so your time is probably better spent elsewhere. You spend a little bit of time doing maintenance sessions for ME that might be somewhat shorter than what you do in late base when ME is your focus.
So the marathon MTBer might push out to 2hrs of SST work in base, then as your race approaches limit your sessions to 90 minutes but know you can do it for 2hrs… you just don’t need to incur the fatigue from doing those sessions right up until race day.
I wouldn’t neglect raising your power curve, either. If 230W is 85% for you, but you can make it say 80 or 75% by raising your FTP with some focused work, you’ll be able to sustain it longer as well. This is where it helps to know if you’re bumping up against your current ceiling or if you’ve got room to grow under your current aerobic capacity or not.
Yes, its an interesting blog post. Definitely worth listening to the podcast too, but in the end those are pretty high upper limits and not in line with the off-the-shelf plans. My coach works for Frank Overton, but is not Frank, so I can’t shed any other light on that post.
I have the older 16 weeks of Sweet Spot off-the-shelf plan and the longest mid-week SS intervals are 4x10 and 3x12-min. However they have longer weekend rides, with the Saturday ride including sweet spot. They also have a lot of bursts, criss-cross, and some muscle tension efforts. Did that plan two years ago, and found I had no problem going out on the weekend and doing a long 45-70 minute sweet spot or threshold effort. Always hard to say for certain, but the combination of endurance.
Like you Kurt my strongest legs have been the result of doing longer 60-90 minute sweet spot efforts, although I don’t do those twice a week as I need more recovery. My personal view is that the basic approach of the off-the-shelf plan is solid, and I would only supplement with one long sweet spot ride a month (a century, a long climb, or a flat/fast effort).
This is where I will be going during my builds after VO2max. Essentially once per cycle (3 wks or so), I’ll hit a 75-90min SST session to maintain. Lots of zone 2 and two days of intervals otherwise.
Just a quick update on my VO2max block:
I dialed my first two workouts back down to 3x6. The first one was coming right off of a 50 min crit, so I wasn’t able to get HR up as high and sustain as high a cadence as I wanted. It was a no-brainer. Yesterday’s workout was much better in terms of quality, but I let discretion be the better part of valor… power was fading over the three intervals, and I just thought if I tried the 4th 6 minute interval, I’d fall apart.
So, next up will be 4x5min and I’ll continue my progression out to 21+ min which is probably more than enough.