SuperSix Evo? Cannondale Quality? What else?

I’m about to upgrade my bike, I am still rocking my trustworthy 14 year old Cube Agree with Ultegra and Easton Vista SL wheels. But it’s about time…

Looking into SuperSix Evo. But I am confused… reviews seem polarized. Many love the bike, and many hate the bike. Lovers say its compliant and steers sharp, haters say cannondale quality is complete crap (creaking, bb30a, seatpost creaking, etc.).

Does anyone have experience with Cannondale and possibly SuperSix Evo? Is there any other bike thate compares well that I should consider? I can drop around 3000-3500 euro’s.

I have a 2016 Supersix Evo hi-mod Dura Ace.

Overall, it’s a great bike, but more recently I’ve had issues with the Spider Rings. Replaced them and still got creaking, so just ended up replacing them with Dura Ace chainrings. No problems since then.

No issues with seatpost.

Overall a great bike, perfect for climbing, and with a pair of 50mm carbon rims, goes pretty fast too. But you might want to swap out the chainrings after a bit.

Obvious alternatives are Trek Emonda, Specialized Tarmac, Giant Advanced, BMC teammachine, etc.

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Are you asking about the current gen Evo or previous gen? I’ve had both, but only the current gen for a proper length of time. There are known issues with there not being enough tolerance between Sram AXS cassettes and the frame stays, leading to chain rub. Some also report creaking from the BB, which I have in small doses. That aside, it’s a lovely bike that rides very well. It’s certainly not perfect in terms of quality but unless you plan on using Sram AXS, I would say it falls under acceptable margins (in my book).

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If you can hold out for another month then i’d consider waiting for the release of the new emonda and tarmac just to.compare them to the new supersix.

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Just something worth noting, Free Motion (a bike hire place in Gran Canaria in Tenerife) will sell you a 2020 Supersix Evo Ultegra Disc for €2.499,00 + delivery.

It’s obviously not brand new, but it’ll have only been ridden on 99% smooth roads, in 99% good weather - while getting serviced on pretty much a weekly basis.

It’s how I got my Cannondale and it’s been great.

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I think I solve that from the get go (including BB30A) since I will install a FSA powerbox.

I think I will go for a carbon seatpost immediately. The 105 and Ultegra come with an alloy seatpost for some reason, which some argue led to creaking (carbon against aluminum).

On the 105, they’re Fulcrum 900’s, which most say is utter crap (Fulcrum generally). So I will swap those out immediately, or I will go for the Ultegra which have relatively good wheels (HollowGram 35 carbon wheels).

I read in many reviews that the Emonda doesn’t steer that well, and that the Tarmac is a bit stiff (not enough compliance) for longer rides.

I test drove the 2020 SuperSix 105 and it was EXTREMELY compliant, never felt such a thing before. I went on cobbles and basically did not feel anything.

Asking about current gen (2020)… either 105 Disc or Ultegra Disc.

Interesting… any idea what the release dates are? Things is, I am planning to go to the Black Forest probably in July and I don’t trust my old bike in descents, so not sure if I can wait that long.

I did Tour Of Flanders sportive on my SuperSix (with carbon seatpost obviously). Worked fine.

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That is a massive upgrade. I cant believe you waited that long.

I have yet to hear anyone that is not raving about the current gen of supersix evo. Even the older model is touted as one of the best handling race bikes around. The new one is just more versatile while retaining the handling characteristics of the old one while having all the standards of a modern disc bike.

If its any worth to you, the current gen non Hi mod is Bikeradar’s bike of the year. I dont think you could go wrong with any of the BOTY they have picked recently.

Do bike shops around you offer test rides? If they do, try them.

Other bikes to consider:

  1. Giant TCR Advanced Pro
  2. Specialized Roubaix
  3. Tarmac SL6
  4. Focus Izalco Max

I used to own a cannondale CAAD10 and sold the bike cause I could never get the bottom bracket to stop creaking. I think you should stick to good brands such as praxis works, BBInfinite or C-bear and that should solve your problem.

What do you plan to use the bike for? Racing, long rides or something that can take wider tires. Maybe that would help narrow your list down.

Priorities maybe?

Fast?
Comfortable?
Value?

Hope it helps.

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Thanks for the detailed response. Yeah, in previous years, I haven’t been serious enough so I didn’t think I’d “deserve” a new bike, but now I do. Been training a year 5 days a week consistently.

I mostly do endurance, so centuries, and now training for more (200-250km). So compliance / comfort is important. But I do not mind a bit more aggressive geometry, as I also train my core to be able to handle that.

I am most worried about bottom bracket creaking. I hope that installing a FSA powerbox will fix that from the get go. If I am correct, that will also replace the bearrings and the spider. Only thing is you need vendor-specific parts, but that’s also true for BB30A.

Wider tires? I think the best compromise is still 25’s (GP5000). Still thinking about going tubeless, but I am afraid it is a hassle to service (sealant etc).

I would also be nice if it is reasonably light. I myself am 1m86 and I weigh 78-79kg and just cannot lose more weight. I gain muscles easily, and that gets only worse as I cycle more. So my bike needs to be lighter then I guess.

Not a SuperSix Evo owner, but I’ve logged about 2000km on my new CAAD13 105 disc which, carbon chassis aside, shares some similarities.

Creaking bottom bracket pretty much began as of day 1. It’s not horrible, but it’s not great either. I’m sure that if I took the hour or so to disassemble it and apply some lubricant to the threads it would be OK, but for what it’s worth I’m happy to look past it.

Seat post creaks as well, but it’s an alloy post in an alloy frame. It only creaks on large hits where my full weight is down on the seat like in a seated climb. Otherwise it’s completely silent.
Carbon paste helped clear it up for the most part, and I reapply a light coat whenever I’ve been through some nasty weather to ensure myself it’s not going to flare up again. I’ll be swapping the post out for the carbon iteration from the supersix likely sometime this year. I’ve heard this resolved some of the creaking but TBD, probably because whomever was using it hadn’t been using any form of lubricant prior. Marine grease apparently is a good fix as well (Sauce: https://www.bikeforums.net/general-cycling-discussion/1191444-2020-supersix-evo-seatpost-creak.html)

Beyond noises, I’ve had a number of warranty ‘issues’ which may call to action Cannondale’s reduced quality control that folks have been complaining about…

  1. Rear speed release axle was delivered cross-threaded (this is laughable…)
    Resolution: Cannondale is sending a replacement axle and hanger

  2. Chips/paint damage at delivery - namely rear chainstay (obvious Cannondale factory issue) and down tube.
    Resolution: Cashback incentive + dealer incentives / rebates
    My resolution: imagination + automotive vinyl wrap

  3. Missing seatpost grommet (Dealer issue) and speed release O-ring (Front axle), as well as fender bridges which I explicitly had to request but do come delivered with the bike.

All things considered, this bike is lovely. I’m coming from a long history of SS track, so tight and aggressive handling plus road compliance is what I was in search for and I’m not disappointed.

I swapped out the stem for a 120/-17, along with the mega conical stem spacer for KP253 (https://www.cannondalespares.com/Cannondale-Road-Headset-5mm-Top-Bearing-Cover--KP253/product_detail/3-40270) and handling and geo are pretty well spot on with what I’m accustomed to.

Overall very happy with the bike for it’s use-case. I’m at 7/10 on quality control, but Cannondale support have been great to deal with despite everything going on.

Edit:
I should mention I immediately swapped out the tires for 25mm GP5000 (tubes). This was probably the most distinctive difference in performance so far. The stock Vittoria’s were poopoo, but great all-around training tire nonetheless.

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I had a 2017 Supersix Evo hi-mod for 104 miles until i was taken out by a car and the bike totalled. It was an awesome bike.
When i’d recovered enough to want to ride again with broken ribs (2 weeks) i rented a supersix non-hi-mod for 6 months while i waited for the insurance. I put 2000 miles on that bike and loved it. It handled superbly. It was definitely noticeable the difference between low-mod and hi-mod though. Hi-mod just feels more “Alive”. I eventually handed the bike back and bought a Cervelo R3 which is brilliant.

I’d have another Supersix hi-mod in a heartbeat, but the Cervelo is also awesome, and there’s no BB creaking problems…

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I’m in the ‘never again’ camp with Cannondale due in part to design but primarily execution of the frame construction. This is from CAAD12 ownership, a bike I used to recommend for handing, comfort and being generally fun to ride, but reading issues people have had on newer models means I am done.

Key issues have been
Internal cables cutting into frame causing cables to stick, design issue (unusually mine is on gear cables, but plenty fo stories about brake cables, I am working to resolve now)
Headtube dimensions marginally out of spec (good alignment down headtube but top bearing mount machined too low into frame) causing creaking, microshim needed to resolve (actually not that uncommon on road bikes but in my experience caused by paint)
BB openings marginally out of spec (more common on carbon frames from what I read) leading to accelerated wear on crank spindle (replaceable on the Cannondale setup, not so on the Powerbox)
Rattly cables, poor routing/design, more annoyance than anything
Cable angles required for same side entry require careful length choice to make shifting precise (no cross over on front means extra bends)
Rear mech cable exposed at driverside dropout, questionable design choice

That all said I have seen big quality issues on Focus and Specialized frames as well.

To fit a Powerbox to a Cannondale you will need adaptors AFAIK, they are far from an ideal solution IMHO as go against the goal of bottom bracket rigidity which the ‘a’ bit of BB30a is trying to achieve.

If you wanted to run a Powerbox I would politely suggest getting a frame with the right BB to suit.

Personally I am looking at a Giant TCR / Defy as a long term replacement - in the meantime am again trying to work around the CAAD12 ‘characteristics’ to keep it running whilst I save up the money to replace.

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Thanks for all the details. Seems to be its either hit or miss with Cannondale for many.

What do you think are the advantages of the Defy? How would it stack up against the evo or caad12? Did you make a testride already?

True, you need adapters. So basically you are saying you lose watts due to loss of rigidity?

Owned a last gen Supersix - BB was okay but not great.
Own a Caad12 and I basically have a monthly BB30 subscription…love the handling but their tolerances are as wide as the Grand Canyon…
Furthermore the BB area is a bit to flexy for my liking. It is very much noticeable under load
I am looking forward to getting rid of the frame at the end of the season and will probably then get the TCR .

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Defy vs TCR is as much about what I like the look and feel of as it is fit. I must confess to not having ridden either yet but the numbers suggest both should ride well.

The Defy has slightly longer chainstays and wheelbase, with the TCR being closer to my CAAD12 - I suspect the handling of the TCR would make it right for me, that’s what I like most about the CAAD12, but until try have no idea how much I will feel it.

By my reckoning TCR and Defy are the same fit in a size 54 (bear with me!)
A Defy frame (in a 54) has 22mm more stack and 5mm less reach than a TCR, for the same position (i.e. taking out 20mm of spacers) you then gain a tiny bit of horizontal reach due to head tube angle - so effectively the position is near as damn it the same.

I’ll have to see if the Defy head tube is ok or too tall as a starting point first of all, then ride them back to back. Both seem to take 32mm tyres albeit the Defy comes with less ‘racey’ wider rubber which will immediately impact the feel.

We all know less spacers ‘looks cooler’ so that will be a factor - a Defy with slammed stem versus a TCR with 20mm might influence me.

Colourway on budget is important as Giant choose some interesting colours. I’d have to love the look to buy it, even if meant I build up from a frame (flip paint) rather than off the shelf. With my likely budget (maybe next year) I will not be able to get the spec I want, so building up may be an option - cheaper wheels then upgrade later.

I used to have a Defy, the old aluminium rim brake model, and apart from buying an ‘M/L’ when I should have bought a ‘M’ it was the easiest bike I have ever owned. Great build quality, albeit with some cost saving elements, but rode well and for the money was a fantastic buy. The new Defy is very different bike but based on ownership and generally what I read I am comfortable buying a Giant bike, whether a Defy or a TCR.

Last factor is the Giant support network. I would buy from a well known local(ish) dealer who is financial stable, a friend works for, and who do everything they can to make customers happy.

Sorry have blabbed on, but that’s where my head it at on the bikes, and it is all theory till ride one.

RE adaptors - I can’t see you losing watts but you have unsupported lengths of the crank spindle sitting outboard of the bearings. The spacers sit on the shaft and are relatively loosely held by the 40nm and wave washer (spaced to 1mm). I can’t quantify or measure it, but just the principle of it annoys me and I cannot see how it does not increase bearing wear.

If the bearing shell itself is not to spec (within tolerance on diameter and aligned horizontally and vertically) going wider with unsupported lengths of spindle can only exacerbate any issue.

I sound a bit Hambini like perhaps, but versus how the Cannondale crankset fit it looks close to a bodge.

Incidentally Hambini was unusually quite complementary about a Cannondale frame recently, albeit said the BB was out of spec. I watch his videos somewhat appalled at the language and with my sensible logically head on, but cannot argue with some of the basic engineering put forward.

** This video is full of swearing, the bit you want is 16:30 in where he summarises the issue but before that he explains what the issue does***

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I have a 2014 Supersix Evo non Hi-Mod. I love the bike’s handling stiffness and such compared to my previous bike (a Trek Pilot 5.9). It’s my go to bike to ride outdoors honestly.

I do get some BB creak every couple of months or so and fix that by pulling the cranks, cleaning them up and applying new/fresh greasing. I also noticed that my chainstay/rear dropout is not centered. Discovered this because I tried to run HED C2 rims with Continental GP4 Season tires in 25mm. That was too wide and the tire rubbed the chainstay. Dish was perfectly centered for the rear wheel and I noticed the rim/tire the clearances in the chainstay was not centered. It was closer to the driveside so I had to re-dish the wheel to get it to as close to centered on the chainstay of that bike as possible. Still wasn’t enough clearance for the 25mm GP4 Season tires and I had to revert back to 23mm Continental GP4000II tires instead.

Other than that it’s treated me well. But I do run a Cannondale Fire carbon seat post and it hasn’t creaked on me yet. Built up the bike nearly 4 years ago as I bought the frame on eBay used. Found that for 6800/9000 front derailleurs it was a PITA to get it setup mostly correctly (I could never get it 100% perfect myself honestly). Swapping to an R8000 front derailleur was better but again not 100% perfect either. Going Di2 fixed the shifting in the front finally for me with mostly 6870 and a 9070 front derailleur fixed that. But that was more of a personal choice to go electronic since I have a problem buying upgrades. The rear shifting was always fine with a 6800 rear derailleur with no issues for me. I also run a custom built wheelset too using DT Swiss DT240S hubs and HED C2 Rims (23mm wide ones) which are awesome.

I wouldn’t mind buying a new one if need be but also worry about their QC issues. But wouldn’t count out other bikes either just to try something else too.

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I think there is a lot of feedback from the responses you’re getting.

Looks likes yes, the bottom bracket may be a problem. If that is your first and foremost worry then can I suggest that you look at threaded bottom bracket bikes with an endurance geometry?

you may be looking at the following:

Specialized Roubaix
Trek Domane

Both are threaded bottom brackets bikes with almost guaranteed zero creaking. The Trek Emonda coming might be T47 standard as well so it might be worth it to wait a little bit more.

However, if you are still considering the super six, stick to BB Infinite, C-Bear and praxis works to reduce the likeliness of creaking.

I dont think using the type of cranks / powermeter will have direct effect on the creaking. why not separate the issue and go for pedal based powermeter and have something that you can carry from bike to bike in the future.

I understand that you may be reluctant going from 25mm tires to wider, however, recent studies have shown that going wider is faster and more comfortable. swapping between a 25mm to a 28mm and dropping pressure is the single biggest comfort gain you can do on your bike. old or new bike.

If you’re uncomfortable going tubeless, then dont. its quite a long process as its literally a whole new system, from setting it up to maintenance. not to mention additional cost. if you’re comfortable with clinchers thats fine but I would highly recommend going to wider tires. the GP5000 comes in 32C maximum size. I used to ride 23’s and now ride on 28 tubeless tires on 50 psi and the bike is much much more compliant just from changing the tires.

Also, not sure if you have specified, which model are you currently looking at? Disc or rim? Hi-mod non hi-mod, open to other choices of bikes? Is bike availability an issue from any particular brand where you are located?

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There are a few posts on here about grease and aftermarket BB’s to solve creaking.

If you believe the information/evidence out there on a number of bike frames (from particular manufacturers), including measurements and videos, the issue is down to the BB being out of spec - whether that is BB size, shape, offset or alignment.

Whatever you do to an out of spec BB is masking or working around the issue unless you modify the frame (and in most cases that is unlikely to be an option). Even then if it is out of spec (say alignment) any replacement BB will still run in a way it was not designed, increasing wear and potentially costing watts.

Threaded is less likely to creak as it is multi-parts fitted together, it can still suffer from poor alignment. This might cost you a few watts, it might increase wear and cost you more replacement parts, but those problems should not be there in that frame.

I am genuinely shocked at some of the things I have seen (some with evidence/measurements, some without evidence) and it’s very true that in other industries it wouldn’t be accepted - yet people seem to accept spending many thousands on a bike to then have to do work to fix a problem that shouldn’t exist.

£2.5k frame that is out of spec that I have to put an aftermarket BB into? No thanks, I would be asking for a replacement/refund and if not provided going to trading standards and through the small claims court to get my money back.

Next frame I buy (this is in part why buying a frame to build up is my preference) will be rigorously measured before a component goes near it. If not to spec straight back to retailer.

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Yeah, I am aware of severe misalignment issues in the bike industry. I’ve watched nearly all Hambini videos on YouTube. It’s not even only the misalignment itself, it’s that it’s apparently common to tolerate misalignment beyond the spec, and that’s what worries me.

I think I will not get around the fact that getting a good frame is a lottery, and that most frames do have (slight) misalignment issues, I am afraid. He has videos for virtually all respected bike brands, including Orbea and Cervelo. I believe he even had a Dogma at some point (correct me if I’m wrong). And he hates Cannondale especially (guess for BB30a).

I think I will wear out my first BB30a and then replace it with BBInfinite and stick with a pedal or crank arm based power meter. I don’t like the idea of having a whole different spider than Shimano, even though Cannondale could not hold themselves back and also had to make their own “one” spider for the supersix. Sigh. All these custom components why…

Unfortunately, I don’t have the skills to do this. And my LBS is very good, but not this good. I mean, they could build up a bike from a frame. But they don’t have equipment to measure tolerances etc.

It’s hit or miss with them in a sense. On the one hand, they always know everything. But then, in some regards, they are sloppy. For instance, when I asked them how to remove my crank to thoroughly clean it, because I use degreaser and don’t want to get that in the bearings they simply said: “why would you even clean that? why the hassle?”. And I was like… guys you also sell the Pinarello F12, and the SystemSix, and Orbea…

Looks like you already made up your mind on the super six and where to get it from. go for it.

If it creaks, try a different bottom bracket, if it doesnt, ride the crap out of it.

Very few days are as good as new bike day!

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