Struggling managing gym & riding - Help!

Training
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this is not necessarily a new issue to me, but i’m certainly getting fed up with it. Struggling to manage gym and riding at the moment.

Historically it’s just gotten so bad i’ve ditched the gym entirely but I know for long term health i need to maintain strength work off the bike.

The biggest issue I have is I just get too much fatigue in the legs and I can’t shed it between scheduled rides. Downward spiral begins, start failing rides, start failing gym, end up killing consistency and eventually I end up abandoning the gym altogether to prioritize riding.

I thought I did everything to set myself up properly this year, took a couple of weeks “off” structured training to focus on getting back into the gym, let the DOMS work its way through and then got going. The riding was super easy (low z1) just to keep legs spinning a few days a week.

Once I was settled in the gym did a proper FTP test (used Kolie Moore protocol) and managed 47min @ 318w. Knocked my TR FTP to 310 just to err on the side of caution. Then got stuck in use plan builder.

I make my easy days easy, easy ride no gym. I make my hard days hard, will do the intervals in the morning and gym in the evening. I’m getting more than enough calories, I’m getting enough sleep.

Schedule is Monday off, Tuesday interval in AM gym in PM, Wednesday easy, Thursday interval AM, gym PM, Friday super easy 45min, Saturday interval, Sunday long endurance.

4 weeks into this and i’m just hanging on now. If i skip a gym day my rides are phenomenal. If I don’t I get the 2 day later DOMS fatigue (still) and it just makes what would have been a 6/10 workout become a 9/10 workout.

Gym sessions are not insane. They themselves are pretty basic. 3x8 squat 6/10 RPE, 3x6-8 Deadlight 6/10 RPE. I do some mobility and upper body stuff but none of that seems to matter its the leg fatigue that’s the hard part. Weight is not heavy, reps are not high.

What am i doing wrong here?

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I’m no coach, but my own experience says your hard days are too hard, because you are doing 2 hard sessions on the same day gym + intervals. Whichever way around you do them your legs are not going to be recovered in the same day to hit the second session fresh.
I tried adding an hour of Z2 immediately after a leg session a few times, I could barely walk 2 days later when the DOMS hit :rofl: . If I have to double up a session I do the Z2 as a warm up for the gym work.

I’d switch to

Monday off, Tuesday Interval , Wednesday easy AM gym in PM, Thursday Interval, Friday super easy 45min AM, gym PM, Saturday interval, Sunday long endurance. Even then the Saturday interval session might be too much

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I’ve tried it season after season and always ended up in the same spot as you. Even when I managed to get some consistency I never really saw the benefits.

It made my bike training a struggle / less enjoyable and improvements stagnated.

I ditched the lower bodywork and now only work upper body in the gym with strectching and core. I enjoy the gym so will keep it at 2 sessions max a week for 30/40 mins.

I do some low cadence strength work on bike.

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I might suggest trying only 2 interval days per week? This is the suggestion for Masters plans anyway, and while you didn’t mention your age it does sound like you’ve run the experiment and you’re not able to adapt to your current training stim. Two real rest days/week is also not uncommon and might be good for you. In your current plan, having 2x intervals and 2x gym days in just 72h,(T-Th) then no actual rest day, seems like a recipe for fatigue. Maybe something like:

Monday rest, Tuesday intervals, Wednesday easy AM/gym PM, Thursday endurance, Friday rest, Saturday intervals, Sunday endurance + gym.

That’d give you at least 2 full days including a real rest day between gym sessions, which I personally find limits DOMS and lets me actually hit both gym and intervals with purpose rather than feeling like I’m barely surviving.

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Why not ditch plan builder and just do a couple months of endurance rides while working in the gym? Or even use TrainNow instead of a plan with one interval session a week. Just focus on the gym work and within a month or two you should hopefully be acclimated more to both….

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Sounds like you’re just doing too much intensity. 2-3 intensity sessions a week. this includes Gym. So you likely need to focus on gym+endurance for a bit and then phase gym to 1 a week as maintenance and ramp up the on bike intensity.

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I also struggle with this, especially during heavier periods of endurance training, and still haven’t found the best weekly balance.

I’d agree with @teddy_focaccia‘s suggestions. I’d need two days easy between gym sessions most of the time rather than the one day you do especially if it’s full-body compound workouts. Three interval days with two gym sessions sounds like way more than I could handle on a sustainable basis.

Low volume works: 2 sets per exercise is sufficient to make progress building strength. Also, you’re trying to build strength to help cycling performance, so sets of 8 reps is quite high. I’ve found reducing the reps to 5 is more effective and helps to manage fatigue.

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I don’t do legs in the gym. I know you’re supposed to, but I don’t think the added stress and the way it degrades my cycling is worth it. In the end, I’ve basically committed to focusing on endurance sport and accept the downsides of that.

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I find heavy squats affect my riding for two days after the session, however, if I do them immediately before intervals they can actually help me perform better, perhaps just through glute activation. I try to work on a 3 day lifting schedule over the week although this does vary it tends to be something like this (key strengthonly below, I also do various conditioning work or physio but that’s specific to various injuries)

Single legged squats and/or heavy front squats, heavy stationary lunges, Core work.

Push press, pull ups

Deadlifts (traditional or straight legged) and heavy bench. Hanging leg raises.

Squats are the things that nuke my legs so I pair those with an interval day, or accept my fate and know my legs are going to be blummin sore. Deadlifts dont really affect riding in the same way as squats so I don’t worry so much when they are fitted in unless I am going really heavy on 3x3 or doubles. Push press (upper body) goes in wherever it fits.

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I’ve been in that same scenario and am still trying to figure out how balance the gym and riding. My riding is a Masters Plan with two intensity days per week through the year, usually Tuesday and Saturday. This year for lifting I’m experimenting with 5x5s Tuesday and Saturday during my off season (right now). Then through the season I plan to taper down from 5x5 straight sets, to 5x5 with backoff sets, to 3x5 straight, 3x5 backoff sets, then eventually 2x5 maintenance during the season. My intention is for the taper to roughly correspond with training phases meaning less lifting as the riding becomes more challenging. I haven’t thought it through fully (obviously!) but it might be about a month for each of those lifting phases until Specialty. Regardless, I’ll be adjusting if my legs are destroyed and I’m struggling with my riding. I might keep some of the upper body sets as 5x5 straight since that doesn’t seem to hurt my cycling.

**Backoff or top off sets are 1 heavy set then remaining sets at about 10% below the heavy weight.

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I’ve been lifting for 20+ years and cycling for a year and a half. I find the best program roughly as follows:

Monday: Z2 or off

Tuesday: hardest interval session of week and lifting (heavy on legs). Lifting session a few hours after intervals

Wednesday: Z2 or off

Thursday: Z2 or off

Friday: Interval session, weight lifting day (usually more upper body focused)

Weekend: Long Z2 ride(s)

The second interval day can usually be Thursday or Friday. If you’ve been lifting long enough, your strength training sessions should have pretty minimal impact on your cycling. I always make sure the day after an interval/lift session is either off or Z2. The early week interval/legs lifting session could be Monday or Tuesday, but if my long ride is Sunday, I don’t want hard intervals the day after my long ride.

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Would you stack the tuesday with bike interval and gym to give maximum time between gym and next interval session on saturday instead of how you laid it out?

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I used to do this (resistance and hard intervals on the same day). I generally found it compromised the resistance training. My finding is that resistance the day after intervals, combined with an easy or endurance day and followed by a rest day works better for me. Some of that might be my schedule, as trying to get motivated to lift after a long day at work when I’d already done a hard workout in the AM never really worked for me. YMMV of course!

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I’m doing a similar approach now. I tried doing intervals in the morning and gym in the afternoon for a while to make my hard days hard and to allow for more days off. Didn’t work for me. Too tired.

I’m now on a masters plan with two interval days, two strength days, and two endurance days. One rest day. It’s sustainable for me.

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People always forget minimum effective dose. Do one or two sets instead of 3. Only do as much gym as you can recover from in a day.

Plus, why intervals 3 days per week? Isn’t it the off-season? Maybe you live in Australia?

Two gym session and 3 interval workouts is 5 hard sessions per week. Cut it down to 3 and if that doesn’t work, cut it down to 2.

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Last summer I did only trap bar deadlifts for maintenance while I was cycling more. You can load them heavy and they don’t fry your legs for cycling. Heavy 4x4 once a week.

Worked really well never got heavy legs from it. Probably because there’s no eccentric loading.
In the offseason I squat a lot as cycling is in maintenance mode.

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Do you do both squats and deadlifts the same day, twice a week? I’d probably only do one each, and swap the second to a less fatiguing excercise, maybe split squats and RDLs.

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As well as only doing 2 interval sessions a week, the TR Masters plans also give you an easy/easier/endurance week every third week (I thought it was every 4th week but have just checked my calendar and it’s 2 weeks with intervals then 1 week with endurance - but I’m on a Triathlon plan so not sure if it’s the same).

I’m tired, but it’s sustainable - 4 weeks in a row of smashing intervals would put me in a hole.

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I am in the same boat as most of you. I am in kind of maintenance mode with ad-hoc tempo or endurance ride. I use 10 days block instead of 7 days. I do 6-7 rides per month, 6 trail runs /30-45 mins each/ and 6 strength sessions / body weight training using resistance bands and rings/. I do body weight exercises for my glutes /they are pretty weak/ nothing harsh. I am in forever DOMS cycle and i dont know what to do. My legs are fresh like half of the time. My first ride for the block is good legs are fresh, but from then on my legs are always heavy/tired. I know Trail Running is having a big toll on my legs even when i run lightly. Hill climbing and descending is serious leg training. I wonder if i have to dial back my exercises for legs. Any suggestions, has anyone experienced similar training effect?

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unless you’re some kinda freak, you can’t progress a lot at everything.

personally I flip flop between the bike being priority 1 and weights being priority 1. no rhyme or reason but I sometimes just enjoy one more than the other.

so one goes into mostly maintenance mode til I change my mind again

i’ll pick certain stuff to improve on. so for example, Cycling has been priority 1 lately. if I squat, it’s maintenance….and maybe once a week tops. but I’m still trying to improve my pull up and I’m working on a weird looking one arm pushup…also a back bridge. those I hit hard and just time it so it’s not right next to cycling so I have energy. I don’t think it’s taking away from cycling.

even with that, I only do 1 very hard interval per week. and I do one medium-ish hard ride per week (like a longer 70-80% FTP 3 hour ride). the rest mid zone 2 and I try for 10 hours / week

when I wanna weight lift more, I’d just put my cycling interval on maintenance and not improve…try to keep most of the hours. etc

that’s just what works for me. basically, you gotta sacrifice progress on one unless you have some kinda crazy genetics.

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