As a garmin, trainerroad and zwift user, i just don’t see any use case for Strava. I used have some sort of a soft spot for the data-hub with social benefits it was, but this has sealed it for me.
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Read again, not users but apps and @davidtinker has shown his communication from strava. This will impact everyone that uses strava to sync data to some 3rd party coaching/ training service
Read the email he got from stava below
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While I didn’t have this particular square on the Bingo card, I’m not surprised in the slightest by (yet another) dick move from Strava. It’s a bit rich that a company that built themselves almost entirely on data freely shared from other platforms would suddenly become the Data Soup Nazis, but well within recent (last 5 years) character.
As a Wahoo user and TR subscriber, I just learned today that the only way my outdoor rides were getting to TR was through Strava, and that there’s currently no way to bypass this soon-to-be closed portal. I want to extend a big “FU” to Strava for this policy change, with an extra emphasis on the “U” for the short notice and timing.
But I also have to take TR to task a little bit for relying on a company that clearly has ambitions (however misplaced) to become a competing training platform as a conduit for Wahoo data. I sure the hell hope the direct Wahoo integration is complete by the time spring outdoor riding season resumes!
I’ll have to take some blame, too, for just assuming everything would “just work” if I bought something as popular as a Wahoo. Had I researched it a bit more, I probably would have stuck with Garmin when I needed a new head unit last year.
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Why, though? They relied on Strava as a conduit for data because they positioned themselves as that conduit, by making it more convenient to integrate with them than with multiple platforms and manufacturers with disparate APIs. If anything, until a few days ago integrating with Strava was the less risky choice, since Wahoo arguably has a bigger incentive than Strava to lock down their data, given that Systm is a direct competitor to TrainerRoad.
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Yes. Like I said Strava aren’t bothered about us.
“If anything, until a few days ago integrating with Strava was the less risky choice, since Wahoo arguably has a bigger incentive than Strava to lock down their data, given that Systm is a direct competitor to TrainerRoad”
I’m going to have to disagree with you here. I think it would be suicidal for a device maker to block or otherwise significantly hinder the usefulness (via terms of service) the data they collect from general export to external platforms. There’s legal peril in specifically blocking individual companies from data, so it would be HIGHLY unlikely that Wahoo would target TR specifically. They could shape the TOU in such a way that they would essentially stop TR from using their supplied data, but that would also stop many others from doing so as well. Most critically, Strava. Show me a head unit or fitness watch aimed at enthusiast athletes that doesn’t mesh with Strava, and I’ll show you a device with minimal market potential.
Like it or not, Strava are still the goliath in this space. And they are probably correct in the assumption that they are in a strong enough position to expect that data be still be freely fed to them, but can choke the downstream users. The hardcore riders and runners who use outside training apps represent a small percentage of all Strava users. But there’s still a huge contingent of Strava users who are in the “casual” to “semi-serious” range. They want a place to collect their individual and aggregated workout data, and maybe do a low-level analysis of their fitness situation, but aren’t so hard core that they’re using an external coach or dedicated training platform. Strava does enough for them now, and is looking to become the option those people go to if/when they do decide they want train more deliberately in the future. Strava seem willing to anger the current hard core athletes on the platform if it means they can retain (and further monetize) athletes who grow into hard core athletes in the future.
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Ugh, I had just recently figured out the magical dance to keep TR, Strava, Wahoo, and Apple Watch all in sync.
Its funny, I pay for Strava, mostly just because I understand their predicament; I’m there for most of their free features. The only subsriber feature I really use is the Fitness/Freshness chart, because I like to see how my total workload varies over time, which TR doesn’t have.
If Strava isn’t acting as my single source of truth for storing/sharing data with other platforms, I really have no real reason to be there.
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Why? That’s exactly what Garmin does. The Garmin Connect API is not open, you can’t just sign up for access, you have to request it and they have zero obligation to grant you or anyone else access to it. And as stated in previous posts in this thread, they don’t push outside activities via their API, which is why Zwift activities pushed to Garmin Connect don’t end up in TrainerRoad. They haven’t even allowed new partners to push activities to Garmin Connect in years. Garmin seems to be doing fine.
They could shape the TOU in such a way that they would essentially stop TR from using their supplied data, but that would also stop many others from doing so as well.
That’s my point, that’s exactly what Strava did and there is nothing stopping Wahoo or Garmin from doing the same thing at any point in the future, so it’s not really fair to “take them to task” for making the decision to integrate with Strava years ago, when a) that streamlined the integration and b) it may have seemed like the safer choice at the time.
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Well, Strava ended up being the one who effectively cut TR off. And it wasn’t an either/or choice. There was nothing stopping them from pursuing the Wahoo direct API as a contingency against this scenario. TR simply incorrectly calculated that it wasn’t a high priority. I’m not mad at TR, but am a little disappointed. Wahoo aren’t some fringe device brand. They left themselves exposed and got burned. Now my TR experience stands to be compromised.
This is totally my use case too.
- It absolutely wasn’t a priority since TR had a completely workable solution in place for years, until Strava decided to pull the rug out from under everyone.
Hindsight is 20/20, but I don’t remember anyone calling for this in great measure prior to this announcement, because it simply worked.
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I’m in the same 4 ecosystem as you. Dance between those platforms is a great way to say it.
At this point do we all just look at an app like workoutdoors or training peaks to be the central data broker?
I hope that more integration with Apple Watch and the Apple Fitness app is on the TR roadmap as well.
I often use my watch to record commuting activities when I don’t want to bring my Garmin head unit. But that’s also where I record every other non-cycling activity like walking, yoga, strength training, etc. Those activities go to Strava and then to TR just to keep track of total volume.
And then TR to Apple Fitness would be nice so that TR workouts can be reflected in my daily fitness rings. That currently also takes place via Strava for me.
But based on what everyone else in this thread are discussing it seems like that’s a much lower priority than Wahoo and Intervals.icu.
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I’m sorry, but some critical items, like data source vulnerabilities, should be addressed proactively by the developers. Don’t try to shift responsibility to the user base because they didn’t “call for it.”
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This is the boat I’m in. Running and strength are both recorded on my Apple Watch and are only pulled in to TR via Strava. Additionally, my TR workouts are pulled into Apple Health and Fitness, again, via Strava. I think it’ll be a bumpy few months for us.
But, I can still mark my scheduled runs and strength sessions on my TR calendar as complete, and they should then feed in to Adaptive Training. Additionally, I can record my TR workouts concurrently on my watch and TR so that my Apple Fitness and Training Load maintain some parity with TR.
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My thoughts on all of this.
First, I went ahead and canceled my Strava premium subscription. I used the “Other” comment box to let them know why, as well as send them an email asking for a prorated refund (not expecting one). In that email I mentioned that it’s actually my data and how they’ve fundamentally changed the services being offered compared to when I signed up. Maybe if they get enough people canceling or emailing them they’ll see just how many people are affected. Maybe not.
Like others have said, this is kind of just the straw that broke the camel’s back with Strava. I don’t use Strava for much of the social aspect. I have followers and follow people, mostly just to be nice if they follow me. I have most people muted so I don’t see their activities and can’t tell you the last time I gave a Kudos to anybody. I almost left when they changed the segment leaderboards, and did stop my premium for a bit after that but came back recently wanting to give them another try. Segments and KOMs are fun but not worth the price of premium.
As of now I mostly use Strava as a data middleman. Analysis is done on intervals.icu and/or WKO5, both of which don’t need Strava. Some other apps I’m not sure about. VeloViewer is a fun one for segment stuff but also their square map. Statshunters is the same. I use the map as a fun way to try new roads and expand my square. I also use a similar app called Wandrer that shows me unique roads. Again, something to find new routes and ride roads I’ve never ridden. Since Wandrer and Statshunters only take the map data and there’s no AI or coaching, I’m hoping they’ll be fine.
Another thought is how many people this will affect. I saw somebody quote 125M users. I’m curious how many of those are real people and actually active. My wife and father have Strava accounts but I know for a fact my wife hasn’t logged an activity there in over 3 years. Same for my dad. So how many of those 125M are real, active users. How many are bots. And then how many of those are premium? My guess is that the non-premium user isn’t going to notice this much. The premium user is more likely to use other third party apps. Which means that I would think that there are more premium users that are going to be angry about this and possibly cancel. Which again comes back to the question of why Strava is doing this. The decision looks to affect the paying customers more than the free users.
I’m not sure where I’m going with this other than to say it just seems like an odd move from Strava. I’m not sure if something else is forcing their hand or they are completely clueless on their userbase and what people want. Also perfect timing for the 25% off TrainingPeaks sale right now. With the aquisition of IndieVelo, TP could become the data center plus offering virtual rides.
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He wasn’t doing this. Product roadmaps are often driven by user feedback so why would this have been prioritized if there was little feedback about this?
There was absolutely no indication that this was “critical”. Strava has been a reliable data hub for years and just decided one day to pull the rug under the industry’s feet. No one could have anticipated this.
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I have 6 month left on my subscription but will cancel when i get back from my business trip. I can sync rides on my Fenix 7 until the Wahoo integration is figured out. Better to cancel an ask for my $ back now while it is fresh in their minds.
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Not sure how much data is stored in the export file but it’s worth a try
“As with many app categories, third-party developers have come to the rescue. HealthFit has one simple job: export Activity app workouts into the FIT file format. It can natively share to a few places, but I love the ability to just save it straight to iCloud Drive and the Files app. From there, you can then upload it wherever you want.”
Does this have anything to do with the recent news story about Secret Service agents being tracked via Strava?