2 - 4.5 hours 60 - 70% ftp so 70% was the cap. The 4 hour rides it was suggested I target 65% (I normally came back at about 68%) The 2 hour Z1 rides I normally did on the trainer at a flat 70%
Coach accepted my FTP as correct from a 2x 8 minutes test and a 20 minute test in the two weeks prior to him becoming my coach and propably more importantly looking at the sessions completed in my Trainingpeaks account. He didn’t have me do a 20 minute test until about month 5. Wasnt any need, workout compliance was / is more valid than an assessment most of the time.
Edit: Thinking about it a bit more it could be argued that knowing your FTP isnt as usefull in POL training. VO2 work doesn’t scale very well to your FTP it varies more by the individual, compliance is more important. Z3 interval targets we set based on the previous session. Z1 can be checked again HR and Pwr:Hr
Interesting he mentions sometimes LIT with surges, I have been doing these for years more for a tiny mental break more than anything. I cant ride at 300 watts for 2 hours though. Lol.
I regularly do some small surges every 5’ or so on most endurance rides, or just get out of the saddle for 20s and then change cadence for the next 5’ stretch. Lots of 5’ intervals go by much faster than a 2 hour trainer S1 ride.
I am with you on the 300 watts. My FTP is about 295 right now and I usually target 190-210 indoors. I really enjoy the outdoor rides of 4-5 hours like this.
I’m doing 1 vo2max or threshold session every week. I just wondering if it’s too much and thanks to your feedback I think I’m going to reduce the z3 session.
I have this idea of doing 1 sweet spot session and 1 vo2max/threshold session for a week beside the z1 sessions for the next block of training, but I think I’ll drop this idea.
Which is a better predictor of marathon or ultramarathon performance - VO2max, a.k.a. cardiovascular fitness, or LT?
The answer, of course, is LT.
It therefore follows that you’d better off regulating those endurance sessions - which are supposed to be 80% of all workouts - relative to some marker of muscular fitness, e.g., FTP, than a cardiovascular measurement, i.e., HR.
For the VO2max sessions, pick a duration, pick a number of repetitions, and let 'er rip. If you go too hard, you won’t be able to complete the workout “in style”, whereas if you don’t go hard enough, you can, or at least should, go harder next time.
Since the big driver of improvements in the polarized approach are those intense interval sessions, and you can’t train really, really hard if you’re too tired, I would argue that effective polarized training is at least, if not more, dependent on having an adequate handle on your FTP than alternatives.
See you contributing in other threads I follow and think I cannot offer more to you than you know already (WKO extensive aerobic…).
I’m with you overall.
For me I’ve seen it when HR curve was turning from flatish (or very slight rising) to pointing a bit more upwards…so it became decoupled. You can see it here in the last third:
Maybe it’s overthinking too much and unfortunately it’s not always as clear but I have some indication now and feel way more confident in my training (using some WKO principles and my own planning and conservative FTP instead of standard TR plans).
I’m sure you know the obvious answers…there is a thread here
One take (assuming heat and hydration is dialed) is that muscular fatigue leads to more muscular recruitment leads to more oxygen demand leads to cardiac drift.
Since everyone’s capacity to absorb and benefit from training differs, trial and error is your ultimate solution.
An experienced coach might be able to help you get dialed a bit more quickly, but OTOH if you are especially fragile or robust, their rules-of-thumb may mislead you.
Dehydration is a massive one for me, only ever take two 750ml bottles on a 4 - 5 hour ride and very rarely refill. Indoors recently really been struggling with heat, too cold to put all the fans on (been -4 to 2 degrees), quickly becomes too hot no to, that is great for getting some nice drifting going on.
I start off with no fans for 10-15 minutes and then turn one on after I warm up. I keep it on low and have moved it farther away so I’m just getting a little air movement across the body.
Yes, I been trying that but get the timing a bit off and the session is a nightmare or ruined. I did think about move the fans further away and having them on from the start. Starting with a layer or two and taking them off after 10 - 15 minutes. It is a narrow balancing act. Thankfully it 10 - 12 degrees now.
I’ve exchanged some private messages with tshortt on this, and I haven’t found decoupling to be helpful except after restarting serious cycling following my off-season. After 4-6 weeks my power:HR relationship quickly stabilizes and I can show you all sorts of endurance-only, and endurance+stuff going out to 4 hours and decoupling is less than 5%. After looking at decoupling over 4 years I’ve never seen much use beyond that short transition from off-season to training. But everyone is different so maybe it might help you.
Instead of decoupling, my opinion is the same as old’s below (trial&error).
Agree, and regardless IMHO it is better to track progress with power. I’ll use HR for a short period of time after the off-season, before doing any benchmarking. And HR caps when it gets really hot, it is a long ride, and I’m not acclimated yet.
Exactly.
In the words of a local Kona age grouper “embrace the heat!” Think it was a ScientificTriathlon podcast, one of the ‘secrets’ to Mathew Hayman’s indoor training before winning Paris Roubaix is thought to be increasing vo2max by training in warmer indoor temps (AFAIK it wasn’t planned, just post indoor observation). I’ve also seen gains, my best ramp test was after doing some long weekend rides in 100F / 38C temps and then doing the ramp test in my garage at 82F / 28C. I hate the heat and acclimation sucks, but no denying there are benefits.
Taking the ‘progress’ out of the equation as OBNDY comment and the previous comments were not about that, are you and OBNDY saying you do not agree with Seilers cap for Z1, %HRmax etc or the other heart rate estimates he has come out with?
OBNDY no need to reply I know you disagree with Seiler on this.
