Great post and I agree with your point about carbs/protein based on need… but, damn talk about taking quotes out of context. I basically said create that drink with as many calories from carbs as you need depending on the workout but keeping protein the same (which works for me personally), and threw the ratios in there because it was the subject of the thread.
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Haha definitely didn’t mean to take things out of context for the point of saying anyone was wrong.
Just that any mention of ratios is probably propagating the problem of their continued use in thinking about how to put together a recovery drink.
Your contribution was excellent, and looks a LOT like my own post-ride smoothies, by the way. I probably just dump more sugar in!
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I load it up on big rides for sure!
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Wow, thanks, this is great info that I’ve never heard/considered before. So whey might be a slightly better post-workout source since you can digest all of the protein quickly and more effectively contribute to recovery? I might have to consider that for the future.
Interesting info on the CHO:PRO ratio as well. Thanks.
Correct.
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None of the studies I’ve seen or heard about discussed increased muscle growth or increased testosterone as a motivation for a recovery drink, or evidence gathered in evaluating a recovery drink. The focus is on muscle glycogen replenishment, and in that context, not muscle growth, studies have shown that a fairly substantial recovery drink with protein improved replenishment compared to either a recovery drink with equal calories (but all carb) or a recovery drink with equal carbs (but lower total calories).
I also haven’t seen anything that suggests the ratio actually matters (that seems like it would be a bear of a study to conduct!), to be fair. Still, the value of protein in a recovery shake seems to be distinct from the value of meeting daily protein needs, right? It makes sense that if your ride was well-fueled then your need for massive carbs in a recovery drink is lower, but the value is there even if the workout was well-fueled.
That was the topic of my first dissertation. And, you’re right. 
The original studies that started discussing CHO:PRO ratios did gain notoriety and become dogmatic quickly, due to meaningless hormonal effects, and increased rates of muscle protein synthesis after consumption. All transient changes with no effect on chronic adaptation, in the context of a remotely normal or optimal diet.
My only point in bringing that up was that we should let the discussion of CHO:PRO ratios die, and that we should discuss the magnitudes of consumption of post-workout CHO and PRO as the independent entities that they are.
We should discuss how much of each on their independent merits, though there probably is some insulinemic advantage to consuming them both simultaneously, especially in the case of a quick turn-around to another training session same-day, but the amounts should be determined as I mentioned previously, without regard for ratios.
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Hello,
My apologies as this topic has probably been exhausted, but I am trying to determine how to calculate the “starting point” of my 4:1 ratio (carb:protein) for my recovery drink.
I.e. how do you calculate how many grams of carbs/protein to put in your recovery drink?
I have a jar of maltodextrin for carb, whey protein for protein, and a scale to weigh them.
Thank you.
I moved your post under the existing one on the same topic. Answers may be present above, or new ones offered in response to your comment.
Thanks, Chad!
I’ve definitely read through this thread and its still not clear to me. There is a lot of discussion about the ratio, but no actual definition on how the actual grams were calculated. Like, do people take their KJ(cal) burned during their workout and calculate the grams of carbs burned from that, and then apply the protein ratio? Others have said “I do 40g carb and 10g protein” which fits the ratio, but how did they specifically come up with 40g of carb and/or 10g or protein?
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That M is doing some hard work
Use a digital food scale to weigh grams, that’s the best way for an accurate measurement. Then depending what you want for a recovery meal or drink is up to you. Then for every 1 gram of protein there should be 4 grams of carbohydrates. It doesn’t have to be exact but make sure you have some protein and plenty of carbs!
Thanks, so I definitely understand the ratio. But I’m not clear on how to determine “how much”. As in, it could be in the order of magnitude of 120g of carb and 30g of protein. Or, 40g of carb and 10g of protein. What are the guidelines/recommendations to follow to determine how much of each to put in your recovery drink?
as @Dr_Alex_Harrison said above, the ratio doesn’t really matter. You are trying to do two things. Get enough protein in your daily intake to meet your requirements. and then replenish your carbs based on the calories burned in your ride. So let’s say you did a hard effort and burned 1,000 calories. On the ride you took in 600 calories (150 grams of carbs), you need to get 400 calories or 100 grams to replenish. That doesn’t have to be immediate, just the next hour to two hours. So you do do 50-100 grams of carbs for your recovery “shake” and add some food after if you need to. If for whatever reason, you want to do 4:1, then you would have 100/25 or 50/12.5 grams carb/protein. the reality is if you are off somewhat you will likely never notice the difference.
If you just follow the basic principle of fueling your ride and then getting something in after the ride with carbs and protein that tops up what you didn’t take in, you will be fine. You don’t need to overthink it.
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@aydraper Thank you! This is exactly what I needed. I do all of my workouts at night, so say I did a workout that burned 400 calories, I could recover with a 100g carb (1 g of carb has 4 calories), and then 25g of protein recovery drink, if sticking to the 4:1 ratio. This approximately replenishes what I burned during the workout.
What I struggle a bit with is timing.
Say I’ve completed a 1½ hour ride and I’ve burned 1,000 calories. During that ride I’ve also ingested 120 grams of carbs (i.e. 480 calories). Thus I have now a deficite of 520 calories after ending my ride.
The reason for having 120 grams of carbs during the ride is that the rider estimates that he/she can only stomach 80 grams of carbs per our without experiencing discomfort on the digestive system.
As for the recovery drink after ending the ride, the rider has already taken in 40 grams of carbs during the first half hour and would thus only be able to stomach an additional 40 grams of carbs directly after ending the ride. This would then mean that the rider have now ingested a total of 160 grams of carbs (640 calories) and would need an additional 90 grams during the coming 1½ hours which could come from either a second recovery shake and/or solids.
Is my reasoning above valid or am I incorrect in considering the on-bike carbs and the affects this in combination with recovery shake on the digestive system?
The digestive system becomes more open to higher carb intake rates as soon as you stop exercising.
Therefore, you can intake more post-workout, if you like. But there’s no rush to get it in if you’re not training again same-day.