So painful, so good… definitely masochism here. IT HURTS SO GOOOOOD
Started with Wheel-2, added Brutal (45min), and did Tioga this weekend.
Despite TR re adjusting I really want to give a good shot at Palisade in two weeks
Initially Warlow was in the progression next week but I that’s still a 1:2 over:under just with a higher over intensity.
So far I will have done 1:2’s, 2:2’s… palisade being 2:1 I thought the best bet would be to do Fang Mountain … sort of like 2:1’s but with a ramp instead
What would be your OVERUNDER of choice to get ready for Palisade in two weeks?
Interesting … like Tioga this weekend but one more over:under cycle per interval
I wonder whether 1) adding interval duration, or 2) playing more with the over:under duration ratio, or 3) playing with the over:under intensities will give me my best bang for the buck.
TR seems to go for option (3) (Warlow), but my gut tells me I should get used to generating a lot of lactate and then having little time recovering like Palisade, so I gravitate towards option (2) and think Fang Mountain +2 would be my choice
Oddly McAdie, the 1st approach of lengthening interval duration, would seem to me like a progression after Palisade … surprised that the this was a precursor to Palisade in the past … But if there’s a good reason for this k want to hear it if its going to give me a chance of not dying during Palisade hahah
You could go straight to Palisade with a plan to complete four of the five intervals (or three) unless, when you get into it, you realise you can get all the way through it.
Sometimes 4/5 of a workout is pretty much as good as the intermediate anyway and leaves you with a better appreciation of what it will take to get it done.
I appreciate it isn’t easy for some people to accept that a failed workout isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
@ivegotabike interesting approach!! I didn’t think of it.
I’m interested in trying it out this way, and z2’ing the remainder of the workout duration if I fail.
Only downside I see is it maybe screwing with progression levels for biting off more than I can chew? So far have not failed a workout, don’t know what happens
Ultimately, the goal of Over-Unders is to improve your body’s ability to manage lactate accumulation and your ability to buffer that lactate. As you have mentioned, there are a few different components to this.
The progression prescribed in your Training Plan targets your ability to hit higher power targets, increase the time you can spend at threshold and improve the speed at which you are able to clear lactate.
If your goal is to complete a specific workout rather than progress in an intentional way, as prescirbed in your Training Plan, then I think this is the right question to ask. So with the goal of completing Palisade, I think this is a good approach!
Agreed! If you take this approach, don’t sweat it if you fail Palisade. The link that @ivegotabike shared explains this in more detail.
You could also do Palisade but decrease the intesnity (if needed) to get a feel for the Workout and to get a sense of whether it is within your abilities right now?
I do get the gist that a workout failure is not the end of the world, and that running after Palisade for Palisade’s sake is a bit vain too, haha.
I guess I have the feeling that Palisade is a sort of badge of honor… No other workout within « my reach » (close enough to my progression level) has given me that sinking feeling in my gut and a feeling of … « oh fck… I may just fail this one! ». The 2on/1off is scary … in a good way
I read something somewhere which might help you frame things differently in your mind.
If you were doing a 20 minute FTP test, then you would be holding 105% for 20 minutes. When you realise this, then holding it for 2 minutes, before having an opportunity to clear some of the burn, doesn’t sound quite so intimidating.
I remember the days when Palisade was a staple of the SS Base plans, I would usually spend the best part of two weeks mentally building up to it. Eventually led into Leconte, those plans were brutal.
For what’s its worth, avg and max hr lower than tioga last week… I am crossing my fingers this is adaptations already coming in to conquer this Palisade beast
Also felt « hard » instead of « very hard » for what’s it’s worth
I always used to think the same when going from Warlow to Palisade, but the fact that the highs are 2 minutes of 105%, not 110%, softens the blow markedly. I always found that Palisade was hardly any harder than Warlow, and that’s reflected in the modest difference in PL (0.3). So don’t worry, if you managed Warlow then Palisade will be fine.
I always used to secretly like Mary Austin. Still do. I know that if I do it at the end of a block and manage it well then I’m due a nice little bump. Sometimes I crank it up for the last interval or two and feel the gnarr, basking in the knowledge that this means that I’ve definitely made some progress since the last FTP assessment.
@grayham you were right … this wasn’t that much worse than Warlow
And totally hypothetical, but since last week I’ve been hitting PL 6+ vo2max workouts that have properly pushed my cardio and breathing to the limit … I have a feeling this has helped too
