Product Updates, Lost & Found Gravel, Leadville, Swimming for Cyclists | Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast 590

Ask a Cycling Coach Podcast
1

Nate’s back!

Nate gives a series of product updates and we have a discussion about AI FTP Detection, product development, and more.

We then dive into my race at Lost & Found where I won my age group and placed first amateur, BUT maybe I’m disqualified?

Then we covered a listener question on Leadville, my Leadville prep, addressed a listener question about swimming being advantageous for anaerobic cycling, then closed it out with some world cup soccer talk :wink:

Hope you enjoy!

// TOPICS COVERED

(00:00:00) Welcome! Why Long Rides May Not Build Long Race Fitness

(00:00:54) TrainerRoad AI Updates and Future FTP Prediction Fixes

(00:05:02) Why Outdoor Workouts Can Affect AI FTP Detection

(00:08:29) How to Answer Post-Workout Surveys Accurately

(00:12:55) Why You Shouldn’t “Game” TrainerRoad AI

(00:17:47) Upcoming AI Workout Improvements

(00:19:36) Jonathan’s Lost and Found Gravel Race Recap

(00:21:05) Why Separate Starts Improve Gravel Racing

(00:23:28) Gravel Race Tactics: Climbing, Corners, and Descending

(00:27:15) Training Power on Flats vs. Climbs

(00:30:16) Heat Training for Hot Gravel Races

(00:32:44) Reading Competitors’ Nutrition and Hydration

(00:35:13) Did Jonathan Break the Race Rules?

(00:39:01) SRAM Transmission Issues on Rough Gravel

(00:45:08) Listener Question: Are Long Rides Necessary for Leadville?

(00:51:39) Why FTP Matters More Than Durability for Long Races

(00:57:08) Leadville Nutrition: Training Your Gut for Race Day

(01:00:31) Jonathan’s Leadville Sub-7 Training Update

(01:06:39) Leadville Bike Setup, Tires, Gearing, and Kit

(01:13:39) Listener Question: Can Swimming Improve Cycling Fitness?

(01:23:47) World Cup Picks and Final Thoughts

// RESOURCES MENTIONED

- Donate to Coach Jonathan’s Leadville Fundraiser: 2026 Leadville Trail 100 MTB x LTF Athlete

- Sign up for TrainerRoad! ⁠https://trainerroad.cc/GetFaster⁠

3

Everyone get in here, Nate is back!

4

Release the Alpha version to Early Access, please. Happy to test and provide constructive feedback.

I know other software based products have a trusted community of beta testers and ways to collect feedback that is not public. Might be something worth looking into.

5

Very good episode, especially liked the insight on long rides as Ive just done several long rides thinking its the way to go while my ftp is dropping and im too tired to hit my power targets :see_no_evil_monkey::sweat_smile:

6

Good episode and a nice discussion on long rides. I’m still an advocate for getting some long rides in prior to leadville for the sake of training/testing your nutrition, bike fit, etc., but totally agree that they should be approached with caution if a long ride causes a big ramp up from your typical training load.

And the discussion on separate race starts was interesting. I agree that having the pros start separate improves the racing dynamics of the amateur race (and makes things dramatically better for the pro women), but we still have similar challenges when it comes to age group racing. At the most competitive mass start gravel races, the top guys in the younger categories can be as fast as the mid pack pro/elite field. For us old farts in the 50+ and 60+ groups, some of those young guys might as well be pros and it has a big impact on the dynamics of the race. If you are racing 50+, the winning strategy is often to get onto one of those fast trains being pulled by the young fast guys and hold on for dear life (very similar to the race dynamics for pro women before they had their own start). And I’m not advocating for separate starts for every age group (will never happen), but it sure would be nice if they did a better job of identifying riders of each age group. In MTB racing, I’ve seen them mark riders’ legs with a black marker to indicate age group. At big races like Unbound, you can often look at the start list and you know the guys in contention and can write down their numbers, but it’s really hard to pick them out in the race (particularly when the plates are covered in mud like this year). Maybe color coded number plates by age group would help.

I’ve never heard anything about that that issue with Transmission, but it makes sense and a good thing to know about. The reason for the torque spec is to allow the RD to move rather than break if it hits something, so I guess it’s kind of part of the design for it to move if pushed hard enough. It’s pretty easy to check whether it’s moved by just putting the chain into the 6th cog and seeing if the middle lock position for the cage still has proper chain tension. I’ve never had it happen, but definitely something to consider and I’d be curious what compound is appropriate to keep if from moving (but still move if struck). Maybe I’ll add a few extra newton meters to the torque wrench when torquing it for high priority races. I did have skipping issues once from a chain that had a sticky link, just defective chain I guess because it wasn’t damaged as far as I know.

7

It kind of wild to think a few times in this Podcast and others I keep hearing things like “ we didn’t even know the Ai could do that” or “we didn’t train that but it know’s” and all I see is this :joy:

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Very good episode, those Nate podcasts are always fun.

8

I would love some athlete spotlights for somebody average, say 250 watt ftp, who have done unbound 200 with few, if any, “long rides”

I think I’ve seen people mention doing it on this forum but whenever I’ve talked to people “in the wild” they’re all doing the typical build up to long rides on the weekend a usually doing back to back long rides on the weekend.

If I do unbound again I’d certainly be happy riding a bit less on the weekends

9

I thought Jonathan’s comments in regards to being careful in adding long rides into your plan were very good, but I also thought the discussion has some very unsupported points of view as well.

They use Nate’s Leadville where he blew up late in the race as an example of why you don’t need long rides…maybe say that out loud and think about this? I know they blamed it on nutrition…but impossible to know if it was nutrition or perhaps the body shutting down as it was well beyond it’s limit. Then they go on to talk about practicing nutrition. Agree with this as well, but when is the best time to do this? On long rides. Lots of people can stay on top of nutrition for 2 hours, it is hour 4 or 5 plus that usually starts to become a problem. Could have rounded this discussion out a little better in my eyes.

10

I’ve done that 4 times. Never did a long ride over 100/120 miles and would generally only do one or two of those. Focused on consistency and doing lots of rides in 2-4 hour range. IMO, if you’ve never done a race like that, you should do at least one ride over 5 hours or preferably over 6 just to get used to the fueling needed. I don’t think you need to do a 150 mile prep ride. If you decide you need to do one, I’d do it at least two months before. It’s not training for you legs, it’s training your mind and testing your gut.

For me, if I do another Unbound I won’t do any rides longer than 5 hours or 100 miles. I know that I’m going to go to that dark place somewhere between mile 110-130. If I convince myself not to quit, I’ll finish. And I know I need to better about 90+ grams of carbs/hour. My stomach can tolerate it but sometimes the time gets away from me.

Just my $0.02.

11

I’ve done Unbound before and did the typical long back to back rides. My race prep ride was an 8 hour ride which was fine.

The first time I attempted Unbound DNF’d as I wilted in the heat and my gut was bloated as I was no longer absorbing so stomach was not emptying. Learned a lot about nutrition after that year

That year also during training I ran into lots of bike fit issues that I had to resolved. Any training ride over 4 hours my neck/back/feet would kill me. Sorter that out with a bike fit and consistent strength and mobility work.

I don’t mind long-ish rides but my sweet spot is 3 hours and under.

If I do unbound next year I just would prefer not to have every weekend where I’m just wiped out completely from long rides. And there are races I do early in the year Feb and March that both have 100 mile options so those are useful.

I’m usually pretty good with consistency so maybe if I do it again I will just have to plan what I want to do for long rides and maybe cap it at 6 or so.

12

Thanks for another Leadville update Jonathan. You are definitely leaving no stone unturned. Is there any way you can get Keegan to be my friend too so I can get ahold of that Velocio skinsuit? It doesn’t seem like they’re going to sell it anytime soon. :slightly_smiling_face:

13

This is the truth right here based on my experience. I’ve been diligently fueling in the 90-100/hour range on my long weekend rides of 4 to 5 hours and by 3-1/2 hours in I’m not interested in drinking and eating more, but I’m doing it anyway. It’s a bit uncomfortable so I’m going to try and reduce my in-bottle fuel and add one or maybe two gels within the ride to make up for the mild drink mix.

In reference to Nate’s previous training, if I heard it right he was doing three 2 hour sweet spot workouts and then adding on another half hour zone 2 for his training. That is not a light load and will be a lot of muscular endurance that will be a huge benefit in something like Leadville. It’s not the same as riding 6 hours per week for the average jane/joe building up to Leadville.

14

I assumed their evidence was the mountain of data they have in their system showing those long rides aren’t better, and I’d say TR training prescription should always be driven by what their data shows.

On another topic, I wasn’t quite sure what @Nate_Pearson was saying about AIFTP. As we wait for bug fixes are there best practices for whether or not to associate a ride with a workout depending on how much variance there is? Better to build our plans with indoor workouts?

15

What makes you say that? The video just showed a long term belief, higher ftp (is better) vs a higher of percentage of ftp over a very long duration, which some would argue is incorrect based on simple maths and human physiology. No suggestion of data to back the belief up.

16

One of the complainers who have been struggling with AI FTP prediction / detection / outdoor rides and even some indoor rides.

Want to thank Nate for finally addressing this on the podcast. I have been on TR for a very long time and want it to succeed. Fingers crossed that it sorts out as the weeks roll by.

17

Interesting that TR is very conservative on adding long rides when Jonathan is doing several 100 miles races in his build up to Leadville. It is opposite of what Nate described as his build up.

All that said, I get it, the difference is nuance and context. Are you trying to finish Leadville, or are you racing, going for fastest possible time?

18

I listened to the podcast, so maybe I missed it. We might be talking past each other too. What I’m saying is when they talk about the “most effective” training on the podcast, they’re basing that on data from TR, as a general rule.

19

I think he later said (after he checked his history) that was doing 90m SS efforts, and then moved to the longer ones once Leadville was done and he went back to the road. There were some really great pods back in the day when Nate was training up for Leadville and then Cape Epic. I’m enjoying Jonathon’s updates, but it would be sick if Nate came back to riding and trained up for a race, having been out for a while.

20

Can you share what you learned and what you did to help with this?