If that’s what they think, they’re wrong.
Wait, do you just reinvent sweetspot training? 
NOR triathletes → “below 1mmol” because of overall high training volume (not necessarily holding back for intensity)
NOR xc skiiers → very easy LIT because they have to be well recovered for HIT sessions. They already do them for build in pre-season. They call LIT “restoration” training. The document by Olymiatopen and the papers on Marit Bjorgen are very telling on this
ISM → almost no intensity in base/pre-season. There is nothing to hold back for. Only a few efforts at intensity to keep the glycolytic system running. EF’s Jonathan Vaughters once said ISM does too much @AeT.
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Mine is he same via INSCYD (low - mid zone 2). This gives me a power that is a base line lactate of 0.8mmol.
I’ve been training at a higher power corresponding to 1.2mmol and it is definitely a more fatiguing pace.
ISM often talks about cyclists overtraining from riding too fast and glycogen depletion. The quicker pace (1.2 mmol) I have felt is pushing me towards this. Of course it has hard to know what it right. These are just some observations.
Question.
I absolutely love some of the info on here. There’s some fantastic opinions. I’m genuinely interested in what you all offer, if someone asked you to prescribe training for general road riding and racing. Say events up to 3hrs. The person (46 year old male, well trained, fast twitch athlete) had 20hrs a week to train and plenty of time to recover too.
What would you prescribe? Not, what would ISM prescribe. What some study said etc.
If you had to do it, how would you distribute a week, a year etc. Gun to your head, what would you recommend. Hit me with your options.
I’ll add mine too.
This thread got far too deep and technical for me along time ago 
BUT, after digging a bit of a hole with a SST & tempo based plan for 12 weeks, I made the switch to simple ‘intervals & z2’ programme a couple of weeks ago. I’d switched to some 95% FTP intervals and had struggled to complete them, despite considering THR sessions my bread and butter for the last few years…
Well, I’m already seeing the benefits. I managed 9hrs low z1 (POL) last week as well as 2 intervals sessions, and yesterday smashed out my best 4x10 @ 95% - already seeing slightly better numbers per interval and lower RPE, despite actually increasing overall hours the week before! I also feel better overall and am looking forward to my harder days again. Interesting that these sessions were also getting me >90% max HR for pretty much all the time as well. My plan is basically to average 3-4 hard days across a 2 day cycle and pack the rest in as z1 sessions to have 6 days on the bike per week.
Now we’re back in lockdown yet again and the weather has really turned cold and slippery for a while, I see the challenge as getting enough indoor ‘low’ time as I’m struggling with anything more than 90 mins per session just from a discomfort perspective, so will be trying 2-a-day low intensity sessions when I can’t get at least 2 hrs outside, but only only low intensity days. I figure 90 mins and another 60-90 later, all at z1 (POL) when I have nothing else to do all day, has got to be good when it comes to building volume during base.
N=1 but interesting to see how the immediate effects and will track the progress for the next 8 weeks.
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This is exactly what has happened to me and how I have adapted to lower Zone 2 and 2 x SS/threshold sessions per week
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Would guess the improvements you’ve already seen are more a result of improved freshness rather than fitness but that’s kind of the point - the Z1 workouts are less taxing than the Z2 ones, so you’re fresher and able to do higher quality hard sessions. Think the thing to be wary of or figure out is not being so fresh that you’re not actually getting enough training stimulus to improve! Have fallen into this a little bit in the past - made my easy days easier, then the hard days feel great for a few weeks and I smash some PRs, then performance starts to tail off because I’m not doing enough. In my case it’s normally ~10 hours/week, I guess either that’s not enough volume for a fully polarised distribution to be optimal for me, and/or when I’ve gone fully polarised my hard days haven’t been hard enough. Hence per above I’ve tended to fall into a pyramidal distribution.
On the 2 a days I’ve had the same problem as you of struggling to get in longer rides especially during the week. I think it’s a case of being better not perfect. I.e. 2 x 90 minute Z1 rides isn’t quite as beneficial as a 3 hour Z1 ride, but it’s certainly better than doing 1 x 90 minute Z1 ride! Taking it to the macro level, total volume (in hours) is the single best predictor of performance for me, so as long as it’s not impacting my ability to do key workouts I’ve generally taken the view that any riding is better than no riding.
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I’m sure freshness is part of it, and as you say, thats kind of the point. I get what you say about volume and my thoughts are really to max out available riding time and do it in z1.
Usually I dont have a problem with volume/time - my circumstances allow me more time and flexibility than most and I enjoy riding outside year round and getting the miles in. I’m fairly confident that after the next few weeks I’ll get the required volume in again. Right now the compromise of 2-a-days will have to suffice for a little while. 2 solid interval sessions will be plenty of intensity for me at this stage I think.
So are you now fitter, or just fresher?
ETA. @cartsman beat me to it.
Yeah, ~10 hours isn’t exactly a hard limit for me, I do bigger weeks when the opportunity arises (good weather and a quiet week at work!), but it seems to be the optimal balance for me of enjoyment, consistency and bang for my buck. Trying to do more consistently on a weekly basis always has me running into issues in terms of motivation, or cycling just taking up too much of my time and causing issues with work/family/life stuff.
So then it turns into “how do I get the most out of 10 hours every week?”. To which the answer for me seems to be something along the lines of 65% Z1, 30% Z2, 5% Z3 over the year. When the opportunity for a big week comes along I end up dropping some of the Z2 and going for some long Z1 rides. When I’m time crunched and can’t manage the usual 10 hours then some of those Z1 workouts become Tempo or SS.
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Just curious: Z1 would be anywhere below 120Watts and below 120bpm for me. This is really not much, how do you guys stay so low for so long? Neither on the rollers nor outside I am able to really stay in Z1 for a long time, more so in Z2.
I think they are referencing a 3 zone model where Z1 is the equivalent of your typical Z1 and 2.
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As above, Z1 in this context is basically Z1+Z2 on the Coggan/Trainerroad zones. Seems to be endless discussion above about how to determine/estimate Z1 using power, biological markers, HR Max, HR Threshold, HR Reserve, RPE, etc, but honestly gets to the point where I’d rather keep it simple and go ride the bike!
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Yes, that is how I see it. I cant really comprehend how discussions about zones, targets, values, beats etc get so detailed… i feel like most dont see the forest because of all the trees: i dont believe my TickrX or my Powermeter give me such precise data that some numbers more or less would kill the training effect.
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There are plenty of 75 minute workouts that will benefit you far more than reading this thread watching people try to measure who’s book is bigger and who can copy and paste more jargon. Ride your bike, and have fun.
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British cyclying used the term “aggregation of marginal gains” as a philosophy to improve, very successfully.
I suspect for 95% of us focussing on “disaggregation of marginal losses would be more appropriate”
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Too general. What’s your goal?
The other side of the coin, and to go against my own statements, for a person in their first year of riding/training, I probably would recommend a full TR LV plan — SSB, General Build, Climbing RR Spec — with an additional long Endurance.
Once the plateau hits, time to rethink.
I like Munger’s philosophy: figure out what you want, then figure out all the things which will keep you from achieving that goal and avoid as many of them as you can. “Doing nothing” will get you very close to your goal and it’s much easier.
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Answering my own question: Seems to be the case that nobody knows how to optimise Fatmax training. FatMax itself also varies greatly between athletes (33-60% VO2Max).
Interesting stuff on all 3 presentations included on fasted training influence on mitochondria, fat oxidation and keto diets.
I’d argue that those individual don’t even have an LT1, but that may be because the graded test starts too high. Alan Couzens has been discussing that graph on twitter a bit and there’s no baseline.
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