Does anyone have links to explain how the PL system works if you alter the intensity of a workout mid way ?
I started today with a Threshold PL of 4.5 and scheduled Weimer (PL 7.6) for this evening after some time without doing proper structured training but feeling good about things, given I have done non TR workouts at greater intensity recently.
Missed lunch at work, came home & done the workout but ended up reducing the intensity by 5% half way through as I felt starving.
I expected some form of penalty for not achieving 100% of the targets.
However, the penalty seems severe.
Not only was I not awarded 7.6 PL, I was reduced from 4.5 down to 3.6.
Something is different about Threshold adaptations. I completed a 7.0 and it adapted my next one to 5.3. I completed that one and answered Moderate and my next one is a 5.4.
My take on what TR might(?) be doing is in the note “Two weeks without any productive (keyword?) workouts…”
This, to me, seems as if TR is degrading/derating your PL since you’ve not done work in Threshold and its not because you went down 5% on one workout. Just my take.
Hopefully a TR person or coach can provide more, or perhaps better, explanation.
I believe @Gator17 is right. Workout levels currently are a system of switches: it determines that you either satisfied the workout’s requirements or you did not. You lowered the power target by 5%, meaning you did not pass the workout’s original requirements.
The team has been trying for a couple of years to update the workout levels system to better reflect the actual work done (this is the talk of “WLv2” that sometimes pops up on the forum) but unfortunately have been unable to get it across the line. Believe me I’m looking forward to it too because I get zip on my Z2 PL for my multi-century audax rides!
If it’s any consolation, Ai-FTP will take into account all the work you’ve done, including this one done slightly under the prescribed level, & in Ai-FTP’s eyes a failed workout (according to the PL system) is better than a non-attempt. And congrats for pumping out the watts on this one by the way, it looks like a very hard workout, even at 95%.
The L7.6 of Weimer is a substantial increase over the 4.5 threshold PL that you had. How did it get on your calendar? Via a plan? TrainNow? Or did you cherrypick it, perhaps as an alternate?
Yea I get the 2 weeks without a productive workout.
The question then becomes whether Weimer with the second half knocked down 5% is “productive” against a current PL of 4.5.
Not giving me the full 7.6 I would have also understood, or if I had quit half way or reduced the power by 10, 15% etc but not for 5%.
Its also inconsistent with other users such as:
Almost identical lowering but they got full credit.
It was chosen as an alternate instead of Hard Cheese and to be honest, looked very do-able (And on a day when I had not under fueled, plus ridden twice already, would have been lol)
You didn’t technically pass the Weimer workout, and therefore didn’t get PL credit for it.
The Progression Level decay from two weeks without a productive workout is a separate action.
I totally understand why getting some credit for completing that workout at 95% might be a better outcome, and just know that we’re always working on improving things.
It looks like the Weimer workout wasn’t prescribed to you, and likely wasn’t the right workout for you at the time, so getting PL credit for it probably would have only caused more issues down the road.
Let me know if this makes sense and if you have any other questions @G7NXX. Nice work on a tough workout, though!
Thanks for the response & giving official clarity.
If thats the hard & fast rule that any reduction for any length of time under target = no PL reward given, then that is what it is & its fine.
But the confusion is from links such as above where the user lowered by 4% on a significant number of intervals and still got the PL pass & reward.
7.6 May have been a stretch to far, but I cant agree with AT that I should do a 3.7 or 3.8 next time round as doing that level of IF feels somewhat easy compared to what it should.
Going to have a stab at Norman Clyde +2 (PL 7.0, 90min) on Saturday to see how that goes
The way workout outcomes are analyzed and classified is really complex, and I can’t really speak to why one might be classified as a pass, and another a “fail,” but there are different possible outcomes depending on the situation.
I can say that I think the right decision was made in your case as I don’t think that a level 7.6 was the right workout for you, nor were your PLs in 7.6 shape at the time.
Given that you’re being recommended a 3.7 or 3.8, a 7.0 certainly seems like another far stretch to me.. I’d advise you to try the prescribed workout, but if you insist on picking something harder, I’d use Workout Alternates to look for something suitable.
I can appreciate how PL decay would suggest that, but I guess there is no way for TR to tell if someone is really putting effort into following the plan or constantly altering workouts due to intensity.
e.g. Three days before the workout in question, my Tempo PL was 2.7. I completed a 7.1 and marked it as moderate.
Two days prior, Sweet spot was 3.6, I completed a 7.0 and again found it moderate.
Based on those, I did not expect a 7.6 from 4.8 Threshold to be so difficult & to be honest it wasnt, I just felt ludicrously hungry due to missing lunch lol. (And two small stops to change routes within Zwift)
Adherence to the plan does play some role in what types of prescribed workouts you’re going to see.
It looks like you pretty rarely follow the prescribed plan, which could be why your PLs are lower than you think they should be. Knocking out the prescribed workouts and answering the post-workout surveys is a good way to give the software some really solid data that it can use to prescribe your next workout(s).
That way, you don’t have to guess and gamble with hard, high-level workouts.
The lack of following the plan is probably the crux of it here.
But with the UK TT scene in full swing, road works causing sudden cancellations and re-arrangements, WTRL TTT’s every thurs, sporadic British weather leading to almost randomly created club group rides, a 9 month old to look after & a wife who works a 3 shift pattern 4 days a week with a few weeks notice…
and breathe lol…
I have little hope of being able to predict what I can do & when
Might aswell stick to TrainNow for the forseeable.
