@cnidos 55-60% ftp should be easy enough to ride day in day out with very little fatigue, even for several hours if you have a well defined ftp and you are quite fit. Tadej is the best stage racer at the moment… he shouldn’t be needing to taking a day off after 5hours of zone 2, unless what he means by zone 2 is harder than what we typically think. He says his ‘zone 2’ pace in Mallorca is 340 because he can only ride while pedaling uphill. To create a similar training stress, he rides 290-300 continuously on flatter roads while home. He also says his weight is like 64kg
The typical 3 zone model is actually based on lactate, and so is the 5-6 zone model at zone 4 and below. Power and heart rate are just indirect methods / proxies of measuring that, which are not perfectly accurate, and why the described range of power % relative to ftp and HR is so large. You aren’t redefining the model by measuring and using lactate numbers, you are actually making the model more accurate and personalized. That said, the lactate response at each power level week over week or even within the same week, especially < 4 mmol, can vary and trying to get ultra precise with it would be difficult without measuring lactate in real time every workout.
Yes, the general assumption that you build less fatigue < 2 mmol than > 2 mmol still applies.
I don’t think that’s true. The concept of “z2” training predates training with a power meter, and predates point-of-care lactate measurements even being available by several decades.
Everyone just seems to invent slightly difference definitions of aerobic base training every 5-10 years. They all have in common doing a high volume of relatively easy work that will cause relatively less fatigue.
I think they all work pretty equally, and I’m not convinced there’s any significant difference between any of them.
I’m not sure of your assertion that doing work with a lactate <2mmol will accumulate less fatigue than otherwise. Lactate is not the main cause of acute muscular fatigue; nor of long-term fatigue/overreaching, and we’ve known this for decades. I also haven’t read anything suggesting its a reasonable surrogate marker - hence why I was curious.
It’s hard to know exactly what’s going on with his feels/ability/etc… I can speak to the Shimano power meter tech - It does report differently depending on which chainring you’re in. The updated firmware that pairs the meter to the Di2 system to adjust power based on which chainring you’re in is also optional, we don’t know if he’s using that either.
I’m definitely not asserting that lactate is the cause of fatigue. But lactate for sure is a decent measure of load, and more load will cause fatigue to build quicker. I have done a handful of lactate tests in a lab and it’s pretty easy to see lactate tracking with power output. On one of my lab tests had zone 2 max was somewhere just below 285w. A couple of months later it was measured just over 285w. FTP in the 350w range both times. It was clear in my own racing and training at that time that I was able to sustain higher average power outputs for longer periods of time when I was able to keep lactate levels lower at higher power, IE, fatigue resistance was higher.
Question I thought of when watching Remco do his TT (PM not working not withstanding)
How does the Shimano PM work when you run it as a 1x? Is it big ring or little ring?
I would wager (with confidence) that it’s comfortably over 400W threshold when he’s in good form.
He did 1875 VAM for about 40 minutes one on stage. With a 6.9 kg bike, 65 kg rider, plus 1.5kg for shoes/helmet/radio/bottles/etc, he’s doing a minimum of 375 W to overcome gravity. Add at least 15W rolling resistance and he’s at a minimum of 390 W with zero air drag to overcome. Unless he had a significant tailwind the entire climb, there’s going to be some power to push through the air as well. We don’t know the effect of the wind/draft/cda*frontal area, but let’s say another 20-40 W to push through the air. So, I’m ballparking 410 - 430 W as a possible range for that climb, but without any reasonable way to be less than 410 W for 40 minutes. At 68kg instead of 65kg, add 15 W to everything.
I have enjoyed this thread because I imagine Pog and his coaches reading all the speculation and laughing at us, followed by a discussion on “what else can we vaguely convey that will create more confusion?”
Race outcomes speak louder than anything else. I don’t think he and his coaches care, the results speak for themselves: he must be producing truly spectacular power for long periods of time. Whether that is Z2 or Z14, who cares.
