Other Cycling Coaches, Training Plans and Resources

I have the same doubt, but IIRC they will swap the plans for free if you want to change it.

Edit:

Q: What if I buy the basic plan but want to switch to the intermediate?

A: Send an email to help@ and they will switch out your plan at no charge.

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even better!

TBH, I looked back through Strava and most months are <12hrs per week, and the big weeks are because of long social or event rides rather than ‘training’, so Inter would be fine I think.

would be easier to buy intermediate and just add z2 time as you have it available. If you find that isn’t enough have them swap it out. This is what they told me the difference was between intermediate and advanced ( and you can also see how easy they are to work with). I agree with Bbarerra about a custom coaching plan. I was with them years ago and they are wonderful, it just isn’t in the budget right now. ( my youngest son is the one with the custom coaching plan now):

Hey Alex!

To answer your question, it is both an increase in total hours and in the length of the intervals. During the first 3-6 weeks of the plans the length of the intervals are pretty similar, but the weekend rides are longer and include more time in SS. As you progress, the intervals during the week in the advanced plan get harder too (e.g. 4x10 SS bursts in intermediate plan vs 5x10 SS bursts in the advanced plan). To help you get a better idea of the difference in the total hours, I am attaching a chart below.

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thanks - interesting to see the differences.

As stated it not just the extra time in Z2, there are more intervals and sometimes they are longer in duration in the advance plan.

I purchased a few advanced plans knowing that I could just reduce or omit an interval, as it happens I didn’t need too. Although the Diabolical workout in the last two week weeks of SS3 require lots of rest and getting your head in a good place before tacking them. :wink: :innocent: :smile:

You and others. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask.

I have done the same dance, and I also have BOTH the advanced and intermediate plans. I can compare week by week (just 1 week, not going to dump the whole plan on the forum), if you need. Just let me know which one you are interested in.

I also have intermediate and advanced SS Polarized, if you have questions about that.

Just 1 thing to note. 12 hours outdoors is not the same as 12 hours indoors. You have breaks outdoors, as well as micro breaks, descents, etc. FWIW.

I was pushing over 13 hrs indoors, and went with the intermediate plan. I looked at the advanced and said “screw that, NFW I’m doing that much time every single weekend.”

I started the intermediate plan with a CTL over 90, FWIW. Some extra Z2 wouldn’t hurt, but I didn’t add that. I posted my questions at the start of the thread, but I mainly wanted to see how FTFP would affect me. Now, I have an idea.

Also, where you would differentiate, are the weekend rides. Particularly the “group rides” where you can push as much SST as you want. So you don’t have to do 10 min, 12 min, or anything like that. If you want to push 2x40, go for it. Just hit the TSS (or go over, personally, I don’t care, and would just go over), or lower the power req.

I didn’t make as much gains as I thought I would, and I felt weaker than I did last year, FWIW. I’m normally more short power based, naturally, but I felt a bit shot in that area, and can confirm it going into the offseason. Normally I would be pushing the Zwift Academy easily and can double up the workouts and hit them all 100% with back to back 1200+W sprints, but this year, I just feel worn and had to cut the power on the anaerobic efforts and couldn’t even break 1000W. FWIW, $0.02 and all that.

It is a bit more than that.

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Thanks for the detailed reply.

I’m still torn, but may just take advantage of the offer to satisfy my curiosity and give me something to try in future. It’s interesting you say you don’t feel as fit though - I have often wondered if the TR plans would work as well if you swap out the weekend intervals for some outdoor riding, and thats almost what the FC plans look like from the samples and discussions I’ve seen.

Right now I just want to get fit for Liege Bastogne Liege in April !

Depending on your plan, some of the workout / weekly tips specify that you can substitute the (typically) Sunday sweet spot ride with a longer endurance ride. I know the sweet spot base mid and high volume plans state this. Not sure of all of the others.

SSB-HV Week 2 Tip: If you’re not feeling up to another day in the Sweet Spot by the time you reach Sunday, try Ochoco or Ptarmigan instead.

GB-MV Week 2 Tip: Wrap things up with another round of Sweet Spot repeats, ones that force you to employ an intermediate recovery such that you recognize the upside of keeping your legs only slightly fresher over the course of longer intervals. Again, go the longer/slower route by skipping Juneau in favor of something like Town Hill or Boarstone +3.

I’ve NEVER hit a CTL of 90, and “when I was fast” in 2017 my CTL was 65-80.

Seriously how many following TR plans are likely to start base training with a 90 CTL? Looking at the TR plans, I’d guess its pretty rare.

In fact if you follow TR plans, you will NEVER hit 90 CTL. If you follow TrainerRoad SSB1 > SSB2 > General Build > Climbing Road Race progression the highest CTL you reach is:

  • 82 CTL for High Volume (at end of SSB2, and at end Build)
  • 63 CTL for Mid Volume
  • 36 CTL for Low Volume

So your 90 CTL puts you in a pretty unique set of users, relative to someone that follows TR full progression.

For context FasCat’s 18-week intermediate sweet spot ends with highest CTL just above 80.

I know we exchanged private messages, don’t remember if you called FasCat to discuss. I did see you post on the forum and ask to exchange Advanced for Intermediate.

Given you started with a training load above the highest CTL of Intermediate plan, that was a legitimate concern going in and the result was not surprising.

I’ve done TR High Volume SSB-1, it was the first plan I did. Managed just fine but relatively small bump in FTP and got burned out on 5 days a week of sweet spot. Have also done TR’s Mid Volume base plans, and to be honest those had too much intensity.

TR Mid Volume base ends around 54 CTL, and as mentioned already I found it had too much intensity. I mostly followed FasCat’s base plan but had a couple interruptions, so during the spring my CTL only made it into the mid 50s. Despite that it improved my entire power curve vs TR. Almost got back to 2017 fitness, and actually set some under 30-sec power PRs at fifty eight years old (the rest are from 2016 and 2017, when I was loosely following CTS plans).

Anyways wanted to provide some perspective. Response to training is individual, and as they say your mileage may vary.

p.s. @iamholland color me jealous on starting with a 90 CTL !!

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“when I was fast” was about 5+ years ago. My CTL at that point was upwards of 100+. I was riding or using TR every day and on the HV plan, but supplemented.

I was already in the middle of a progression of my own design when I signed up. So I jumped into their Base 2 instead of Base 1, that was also recommended by Jake.

My ramp rate was more sharp, compared to theirs, at that point in time. I had to cull.

Right. There do seem to be a fair number of people that do. In this thread there were at least 1 or 2 others that were in-between intermediate and advanced plans, as I was.

I do agree there. I did traditional base, not SSB. I have to say that the SS in FasCat took a bit of adjusting to as well. I don’t normally do that. I do way more Z2 and Tempo work. When I hit work intervals, it’s FTP and higher. I used to always do VO2, even during base. At least every 2 weeks, I would have a VO2 workout, which didn’t seem to exist much with FasCat. I almost, hardly ever, did pure sweet spot type of work, though FasCat’s Sweet Spot covered Z3, so I guess that would count.

My curve seems to have flattened, a lot. I no longer feel as spry or punchy as I was. I was, traditionally, more of a puncheur type. But have become more flat. I lack the explosiveness I used to always have, but to be fair, I didn’t hit their race intervals. But, historically, I’m way more explosive before I start race prep. All I can say is that I feel flat/dull. I cut it after their SS Polarized and went back to offseason since I jumped on their plan late in the year. I am doing their plan again, seeing how it is from the start. I’m currently in the last few weeks of their weight routine. I think this year, I’ll skip their polarized work as my CTL dropped a fair bit with that plan and I felt it really lacking as it didn’t have enough sub-threshold and the Z4/VO2 work was too little and too short, I’ll come up with some build progression myself or look at their intervals.

Much appreciated, and that is for sure a very individual thing. I was really addressing those that were, more or less, looking at it from my POV, looking to add to intermediate. That’s the reason why I bought both intermediate and advanced. In the end, I decided to FTFP and went with intermediate, but I don’t think I will FTFP this year. I will use it as a structure and add/subtract.

And, thanks, but CTL is just a reflection of how often you do some work. I know guys say they are super fit and can blow out centuries at a CTL of 60. I could never. Currently, in their offseason plan, my CTL is 55, and I feel really weak and just crappy…but I can’t say I’ve been eating all that great neither. I seemed to have fallen prey to the COVID diet yet again.

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They recommend advanced only if you are below 40 and have minimal disruption from work. I have their intermediate strength plan and I have tagged on the odd bit of Z2 but generally find it is plenty. And for context I use HV on TR

Not started their other plans yet to know the intensity and fatigue build up.

I’ve always done that, starting with CTS/Strava then TR then FasCat. Working with a coach it’s honestly the most I’ve FTFP. With this newfound consistency I’m hoping to hit my stretch goals next year. :crossed_fingers:t3:

…more great info from both of you - thanks

Does anyone have experience with any of their other plans - G Fondo, Hill Climbing in particular? Wondering if there is a huge difference between these and TR?

Thanks

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Does anyone have experience with TrainingPeaks Phil Mosley tri plans?

Last year I bought one of his 70.3 plans, but now that I’m a TR subscriber (and so fond of the platform), I’m very undecided wether following the HIM base-build-specialty plan on TR or use the Mosley’s plan.