No Level or FTP Progress

These are some issues I’ve noticed. I sent this to support but want other users thoughts if you dont mind:

“I have a few questions/concerns:

  1. In my plan (Zwift Racing - Demanding), through the end of the specialty phase not a single workout (VO2, SS or threshold) is at a level above my current levels. How am I supposed to progress levels or my FTP? What is the AI doing if it isn’t processing me. Currently all my workouts I have not only completed but rode a bit more after to finish a Zwift route. I am concerned by the lack of AI suggesting I progress through levels which leads me to…

  2. My FTP is flat. Since the beta and update my first AI change is FTP down 4 points and in the SPECIALTY phase of a ZWIFT RACING plan on DEMANDING, the AI FTP prediction is flat/no change and all the levels recommended are below my current levels.

  3. Lastly, I preferred previous version of TR where I could see what workout adaptations were recommended and chose them or not. This allowed me to see the effect of my training and if it thought I could then go harder or softer next. I unchecked the setting for “auto adapt” but after every single workout I am doing I see NOT A SINGLE UPCOMING WORKOUT CHANGES. This does not give me the impression that the AI is adapting anything.

I would appreciate an explanation for the above. I love this software but these updates seem very static and unimpressive at the moment. What am I missing?”

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It’s hard to address your points specifically without seeing your plan - share some screenshots of the last and next month and it will help people help you out. However, a few things that immediately jump out at me:

  1. The AI model giving you levels below your recent bests is an indication it thinks you are fatigued and is trying to dial things back to add sustainability and keep you productive. If you’re fatigued, you don’t have to be hitting PRs every workout to be training productively, you’re still absorbing stress which will pay off when you have some recovery
  2. If your FTP isn’t predicted to rise, you may be pushing too hard (see above, try turning down your training approach and see what happens) - linked to the above. A LOT of people have found turning demanding down gives a better prediction. Essentially your mind is writing cheques your legs can’t cash. The nice thing about the new system is you can experiment. Change the approach sliders, shorten or lengthen workouts, rearrange your days, add some endurance and see what the impact on the prediction is.
  3. Specialty is not the time to be building FTP, it’s for building specificity. You might get an FTP bump as a bonus, but not necessarily
  4. Not all levels are equal. The AI recently jumped from doing level 4-6 over unders, to level 2-3.5 mish mash intervals (no FTP change) but both felt perfect for giving a demanding workout even if “by the levels they looked wrong”. The new model looks at outright power, not the levels, they’re just there for us, and tbh I find they can be a little misleading - how are the power demands of those workouts vs what you’ve been doing recently? If they’re lower, see point 1.

Without seeing your calendar this is all generic feedback that may or may not apply to your case but hopefully gives food for thought.

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Thank you for the feedback. I definitely understand what you’re saying. Regarding #1, I honestly don’t feel fatigued at all. I complete the workouts, without stopping, dont feel dead, rate them accordingly, rarely a 9 or 10 RPE, get great sleep, nutrition is decent. So I neither feel or objectively see a ton of fatigue to be honest.

  1. I dont feel I am pushing “too hard.” I am enjoying my workouts, and haven’t had one in a while (definitely since the beta) where I bonked or had to just stop to catch my breath. Regarding experimenting, I noticed similarly in the base/build phase of this plan and got similar advice and moved from Balanced to Demanding and didnt “feel” much difference. Only thing I noticed is maybe it took my FTP AI prediction from minus 4 points to flat.

  2. makes sense, but if its a Specialty phase of a Zwift Racing plan I would think my VO2 max sets would be at a higher level, especially by the end of the plan.

Here are some shots from my account.

I appreciate your time!

It would be ideal if you could show the last 4 weeks of your calendar.

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Thanks for looking

What’s your other activity you are doing? I think that’s triggering some fatigue detection and your most recent red day. The skipped workout won’t help increase your FTP.

It looks like you are mostly progressing in your levels. And not every workout that’s productive will set a new high athlete level.

You overroad a bit in your recovery week so that in combo with your other activity is putting you in a bit of a Fatigue/TSS hole and the system is lowering your workouts because of that.

Edit to also add: Shouldn’t really expect major FTP gains in speciality phase. It’s sharpening your skills for race tactics: hard starts, repeated hard attacks, etc

Thanks for your insights. My other activity is some rock climbing routes at my gym. Low volume/stress. I dont feel it leads to any cycle fatigue personally. I would rather not log it, than avoid climbing because I find it to be not much of an overlap activity.

Ive actually never skipped a TR workout. Not sure why it appears that way. One thing I do, however, which I may need a logistic fix, is sometimes I do my TR activity a day early based on work schedule. So you can see some of my Zwift TR rides are the day before. BUT the TR AI marks it as complete but still suggests that workout the next day. I wonder….is this causing some of the issues that I raise?

I just started actually moving the TR workout up to the day before when I do it, rather than just doing it, since I noticed TR still suggested the workout when it was already done. Do you think this is the/an issue?

I don’t really think you should be expecting the specialty phase of a ‘Zwift racing’ plan to be building your FTP. It’s for sharpening and honing the skills for your specified goal, which is what the hard start and repeated anaerobic attack workouts are doing.

Ah yeah I would try not logging the rock climbing. Flip side is you can log it and just wait for the AI to catch up to your “baseline” with it.

Yeah I think the doing workouts before and not moving it might have been causing an issue. I move mine around quite a bit for work and I just recommend dragging and sliding what you already have on the calendar.

The other thing to remember is the the new AiFTP is a training metric not a measure of fitness. Your actual fitness or power producing ability may be higher. But the system works finding the “best training baseline” to find the most productive workouts. So if the system sees you as fatigued or overdoing it, it may not increase your AiFTP much or it might not progress you WL. It’s predicting you will hurt your long term fitness is you keep doing what you are doing.

Hope that helps!

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Good to know. But also, no FTP movement in the base and build phase.

Good tips. Two things I will change. thanks!

Ya. I am not a spaz over the overall FTP number. But I just want to see some forward progress, whether FTP/training levels/Suggested workout difficulty (TSS IF) etc

Hey @Incuspy :slight_smile:

  1. In my plan (Zwift Racing - Demanding), through the end of the specialty phase not a single workout (VO2, SS or threshold) is at a level above my current levels. How am I supposed to progress levels or my FTP? What is the AI doing if it isn’t processing me. Currently all my workouts I have not only completed but rode a bit more after to finish a Zwift route. I am concerned by the lack of AI suggesting I progress through levels which leads me to…

TrainerRoad now looks beyond just Workout Levels, factoring in your fitness, recent training, and overall trends to pick the right workout for you that day.

When a workout looks different from what you might expect based on past recommendations, it’s reflecting a broader view of your current fitness and capabilities. This supports consistent, high-quality training, and that’s exactly what helps you get faster.

Think of your training like climbing a staircase. The goal is to keep moving upward—but not every step needs to be taller than the last. TrainerRoad adjusts the step size based on what you’ve been doing lately, so you can keep progressing in a way that supports consistency and long-term growth.

I see that you did a VO2 Max of 6.1 and rated it Hard, then did a 7.3 and rated it Very Hard and then just did a 5.6 today and rated it Hard (which is exactly where we want you rating these efforts). Plus it’s always a good reminder that all the workouts you see into the future are not fixed and will change in accordance to how successfully you are completing workouts.

  1. My FTP is flat. Since the beta and update my first AI change is FTP down 4 points and in the SPECIALTY phase of a ZWIFT RACING plan on DEMANDING, the AI FTP prediction is flat/no change and all the levels recommended are below my current levels.

We can’t compare your old FTP ( 252) prior to the beta new AI FTP Detection on January 20th ( 248) because this would not be comparing apples to apples. Instead, think of your new FTP of 248 as a recalibration to the new system. Just like buying a new scaled, your fitness (much like a different scale weighing you) hasn’t changed, but the number did to recalibrate. Your next prediction is on March 1st, still a few weeks away so let’s see how you’re doing when getting closer to it.

Note: as @Flashpoint51 mentioned, Specialty Phases are for sharpening and honing the skills for your specified goal. Instead we progress you through workouts levels, and we can see this by how you’re answering post workout surveys.

  1. Lastly, I preferred previous version of TR where I could see what workout adaptations were recommended and chose them or not. This allowed me to see the effect of my training and if it thought I could then go harder or softer next. I unchecked the setting for “auto adapt” but after every single workout I am doing I see NOT A SINGLE UPCOMING WORKOUT CHANGES. This does not give me the impression that the AI is adapting anything.

Disabling the auto-adaptations, makes it so that on Yellow/Red Days the workouts don’t adapt to Endurance or Rest Days. However, the AI should be recommending new workouts every time you complete a workout or move things around. I tested this on your account, and if I move a workout, the future workouts do change.

You can always pin the workout if you don’t want the AI messing with it and see how it affects your training :slight_smile: It does defeat the purpose of the system picking the workouts to keep your training progressing, but the nice thing about the update is that you can see live how playing with your Calendar affects your future fitness!

Thank you for your thorough response. I get a lot of what it is doing now. Quite different than before. However, regarding the last point….I know you played around with “moving a workout” and saw changes. But what I dont see is: you do a workout, rate it, and then log back in and see any change to the future workouts. previous versions would have adaptation recommendations for multiple workouts immediately after you finished. it seems this new beta only make changes if you move days or change from balanced/demanding etc.

For example, if I fail a workout or if I rate it a 1 or a 10 (which I haven’t done) it seems like those extremes really dont change the next workout recommendations.