I think its safe to say, that everyone wants to get better on hills. Over the last while I’ve searched all the past podcasts and there’s a lot about hills, for obvious reasons. In the end, the consensus was to just increase your FTP. Well, I tried that last year and felt very underprepared.
With the new training options of “Increase FTP” and/or “Hill” options, is there a new idea here? Whats the difference between these two options?
I ask because last year I trained for a (couple) 6-day MTB stage races that had some very long climbs and I felt quite underprepared. Specifically, because these hills were so steep and long (10-20% for 2hrs, yeah). For a lot of it, I was barely getting the cranks over (w/ 30 10/52). For ref I’m about 168lbs with 300W FTP.
So, as I plan for next year i’d like to sort out how to climb these steep grades better. For one, I don’t recall much/any low cadence work…always high cadence. IMHO, I dont think FTP alone prepares you for long steep climbs. $.02
How does one work in “hill/climb” and/or “Increase FTP” work to a training plan designed at an event?
I do not think you can at this point. The new Plan Builder has the option to do the hill climb/increase ftp OR work towards an event. There is going to be some overlap of each but at this time not sure anyone really knows. Take a read through the thread: 🎉🎉🎉 Announcement: Personalized Custom Training Plans! 🎉🎉🎉
IMO, if the hill work you are seeking is to improve these 2 hour long, 10-20% grade climbs, what will benefit you most is actually simulating the climbs and course conditions. With that type of terrain, your aerobic fitness is only part of really doing well. The other part will come from whole body conditioning, technical skill on the bike, and replicating the handling and cadence for similar periods of time. I would even say, the mental aspect of concentrating for that long will be a variable. TR can only do so much.
First of all, I am confident that you are in the right place to reach your goals this upcoming season .
If I was answering this, I’d ask myself, what was the primary limitation on my performance this year? Did I struggle to improve my FTP last season?
If so, it is likely that FTP was my primary limitation and I’d select “increase FTP”. If FTP doesn’t immediately come to mind as the obvious weakness, but you still struggled with the climbing portion of events, select “Improve Climbing”.
We’ll use this information alongside all of the other information you have given us about your discipline, goal, and desired time to train. Together, this information helps us optimise and target the apropriate energy systems that will give you the best performance.
I’m excited for you to see this progress! If you have questions, just shoot them our way .
I’d try working TTE (time to exhaustion) for tempo - building up to intervals like 4x30 or 2x60 or more since you have 2 hour climbs in the middle of your event.
I think you should also re-evaluate your gearing. You are wearing yourself out if you cannot spin up hills.
I had a similar experience after a long off season indoors, massively increased FTP and expected to drop everyone on the hills then…sucked, and cramped.
The next year I did more low cadence work, raised the front end of the bike for some sessions and came out (relatively) flying up the hills
Ok, climbs were probably 1 1/2 to 2 hrs at 25-30km ish. I’ll have to look it up to be exact but sounds right. Canada is straight up and straight down. Hahah.
HA! I’m in the prairies of Canada. It’s so flat you can see tomorrow on the horizon. I’m planning on travelling to ride where there are hills and so your question tracks with me.
Some backstory. Yes, season we had a TR account that we dabbled with along with a professional coach. I noticed that the two were very similar. Thats a good thing. We loved our coach but it just became a bit too costly for us non-pro racers, so this next round we’re going to give you good folks a try.
Now, I was able to increase my FTP last year (280-300). I contribute this to a great structured training program. So, back to a portion of the original question can you couple “improve climbing” and lay out a structure for an event?
hahah yes… but when your told to do high cadence, i do want to derail anything by “assuming” I know better. Does High cadence prepare you for low cadence too? IMHO, I dont think so but have no real foundation for that and how often? cheers
@brendanhousler just had a podcast regarding low cadence training with Landry Bobo. I found it very informative and plan to throw some of that low cadence training into my base period next year.
For your listening pleasure: https://youtu.be/CI-kuy5QSQE?si=NXOb_b2fEoTAw9M3
Your Training Plan will account for your strengths and weaknesses using Progression Levels, in accordance with the demands of the event. So if climbing (or the energy systems needed to excel at climbing) is a weakness, we’ll recognise that and develop those energy systems with consideration for the other demands of your event.
I spent some time messing around with this, i.e. building different training plans and comparing them. My findings, which are undoubtedly incomplete:
-Most of them land in the same place after analyzing my history: a VO2 day, a threshold day, a SS day and a couple endurance rides. That applied to “increase FTP,” “General fitness,” and “build fitness.”
-Group ride plans have more spiky anaerobic effort stuff, “build endurance” is heavily biased toward SS and threshold, no surprise there.
-Seems like discipline (gravel vs road vs MTB etc.) makes a bigger difference than which goal you pick.
-All the plans seem to initially populate with very similar or identical workouts. Like, for my “build FTP” plan Mondays are always VO2 days, and those workouts are standard (6-7)x3 minute efforts, adding a bit more time or watts as PLs progress, Fridays are Threshold day with 10-13min over-unders that are always basically the same. Honestly it’d be nice to have a “variety” slider or something; give me some 40:20s or hard-starts or whatever just to mix it up!
Plan changes while time elapse…
It will fill the calendar for 3-6 months with default trainings, but as you progress the workouts will be replaced by Adaptive Training / AI that suit your needs…
I have the same schedule, as you decribe, mondays VO2 etc… But you always van choose an alternate workout if you want something else…
It is just a suggestion that TR offers, it’s not 100% mandatory to follow the plan to the exact letter.
For getting to used to longer climbs, I use my SST/Tempo work for this, just lower your cadence to 65-75 instead of 90-95rpm…
Nobody is doing a 6 day rides and climb every hill on or above FTP… Just find your sweetspot, for me it is 80-85% of FTP, and work your preferred cadence.
And use your VO2max / threshold sessions to improve FTP and your souplesse.
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