FTP only goes up 
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Pretty funny hearing people that have advocated for people do FTP tests every 4 to 6 weeks for the past however many years say how much they hate doing ramp tests
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Often considered a “necessary evil”, so it makes sense to me. Not everything we should do is easy, testing is no different.
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Training has a benefit. Ramp testing doesn’t. You can get perfectly by without doing a single test.
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I don’t want to go down that rabbit hole. However, if you are interested in the matter you will find plenty discussions here on the forum and other podcasts that highlight why certain testing protocols are close to useless. In case of the ramp test start with the calculation.
My FTP is in the right ball park. Some days I’m stronger, some I’m weaker. I’ve a good idea what particular workouts or class of workouts should feel like so can adjust things as needed.
Your FTP fluctuates on a daily/weekly basis so getting hung up on a change of 1% is pointless, that’s also within the error margins of a typical power meter.
I can’t remember how many ramp tests I’ve done, maybe ten, of those I’d say I actually nailed it just once. Maybe I don’t test well, get nervous about it, test at the wrong time, whatever.
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Because 2-3 minutes tiz is nothing compared to a proper VO2 workout or an easier alternative. However, you will still face some fatigue. So nothing really desirable in terms of training.
True but that’s not how we are wired.
I stopped doing the ramp test and i am much happier with my training. The ramp test caused me anxiety before, during, and after. I never felt that I was able to give it my all and therefore never confident in the result. I am now manually setting my FTP by my own subjective assessment. I am much happier now and still making progress
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Great points all around. I’m curious if this is only my experience, but the effort and discomfort I experience throughout various points in a road or gravel or cyclocross race far exceed any 60-min TTE or FTP test that I’ve done, and I’ve done my fair share.
If you’re not willing to go into the cave during training, how can you expect to find it during race day? I realize that not everyone races, but in order to be the absolute best you can be you’ll have to go very deep race or no race.
I don’t think it’s doing any athlete good to plant the seed in their head that traditional FTP testing is too hard and stressful and is antiquated…especially when he or she will undoubtedly come face to face with a level of discomfort that far exceeds a standard FTP test. Go do a 60-min cyclocross race and let me know if it was harder or easier than a 20-min FTP test.
Aside from the physical benefit from a long threshold effort there is IMO a measurable mental benefit from not being afraid to do that type of work.
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There is nothing magical or required about an “hour of power” ride or test that leads directly to all races or events. It may well apply to some riders, but there are many more where it may serve little if any benefit.
You mention gravel races, and there is no automatic connection between that 60 mins and what might be 4-8 hours racing for many there.
On the other end, how is that 60m useful for short effort races like Crits, XC Short Track and anything else that is far from a steady state effort?
I get it, there is a relative connection to FTP, no matter how loose, that some must tie off. But that effort and the data derived is not some prerequisite to performing at the massive range of efforts and events that exist around here.
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I agree, but I guess I also accept that not everyone is really that bothered about their performance at the end of the day. Maybe they just train to keep fit or enjoy a few rides with friends.
What irks me though is that no doubt some people WILL be the sort of people expected A1 grade results from all this training, yet never go max in training, and then either moan about the results or get disappointed when it comes to ‘race’ (or whatever) day.
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I think that the main point is not about doing specifically a 60 min effort, but simply the lack of MAX efforts at any range of durations. The big point I keep seeing about this feature is that apparently they can estimate FTP without ever seeing max efforts (I just cant get my head around this anyway but…).
If you haven’t really gone deep then most people are really going to struggle when the time finally comes, regardless of duration.
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It’s about developing a mental fortitude to handle pain. Step back from the analytics of X-time relates to Y-time, @ what watts, blah blah blah. That’s not what I’m talking about. This isn’t science. It’s about coming to terms with the fact that to be a strong cyclist you’re going to hurt yourself, and you should accept that very early on.
The TR team continually bashes traditional ways of testing FTP, and I question that. Now, if you never race and all you want to do is ride a bike and follow a plan, then all of this “just do our ramp test, it’s easier and less stressful” messaging is probably just fine. But for the folks that want to compete*, find the limit, and push beyond…doing the ramp test because it’s “easier” could be the first step in setting them up to not face reality.
With regards to the FTP estimate. What’s the point? Want to know your FTP, go do a hard workout with some sustained efforts. You’ll know if you’re close.
*Yes, I know there’s no pre-requisite to competing and anyone at any point or level can partake
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Sure, and I am all for some appropriate efforts relative to the desired event, no argument there.
I am not advocating for some type “no pain” training. People need to consider their event and how they plan to ride it, and include at least some workouts or practices that point in that direction. It’s necessary pain.
TR may be able to offer decent info or not. Even if it’s good, their plans still point towards adding workouts along the way (assuming people follow a Base, Build Spec plan) that they will get something like that at the right time.
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I would have subscribed to that but I’ve been listening a lot to Seiler recently and I think he is advocating pushing hard 20% of your time but not too deep (just where that line is though 
). There is something psychologically useful to me though knowing that I’ve went harder before and will survive
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Call me a masochist but I actually “enjoy” ramp tests.
I gear myself up psychologically for days in advance and approach it in a no-holds-barred, head-down no nonsense, fit of adrenalin way which I otherwise rarely encounter in my otherwise sedate life.
Afterwards I bathe in the self-satisfaction of having fully tested myself, and am recovered in a few minutes (apart from the sore throat from hyper-ventilating)
As Mrs Doyle would say, maybe I like the misery.
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110% this ^
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I marvel at all he has built.
and it’s the reason I started paying him for it. He continues to roll out some impressive functions and think he would be a solid “catch” of an employee. My only reservation would be losing ICU if he landed somewhere I didn’t want to follow 
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Thats his view of general training though, not his approach to testing Listen to his Fast Talk podcast and he talks about the value of both the 6 min test (proxy for MAP) and 60 minute test. Nobody is suggesting you do max efforts week in and week out.
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As I was listening to the podcast I began to see a day when with the right ML algorithm, we can skip not only testing but training and racing too. we can just fill in a few fields and the matrix will calculate our gains and race results. then we can just ride for fun. 
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