Longer rides (300km+) guidance?

[dsirrom]

Planning to do a super long all-day ride this summer as a personal goal. Plan is to go solo and just bang out as much mileage as I can manage in one day (sunrise to sunset).

Not an organised event; so will be picking the route and deliberately planning a flatter course on roads that best suit me

Aiming to do a series of out and back ‘spokes’ from my home, each around 100k, so I can refuel etc. as effectively as possible.

Plan is to do a minimum of 300k and aim for 400k for the day. Speed is irrelevant as a goal but clearly I’ll need to hit at least a reasonable pace to achieve the latter, even if I have all day.

Longest ride I’ve done to date is 217k but it was quite hilly (3500m of elevation gain). I fuelled that effort on a plan of 100g of carbs and hour and this worked well for me, starting with more solid options and transitioning to gels towards the end, supplemented with dissolved carb drink throughout. Average speed ended up around 17mph.

Training wise - my plan is to continue with a TR plan (masters or polarised) that limits intensity efforts to 2 a week and supplement with ever increasing distance a week outdoor rides, to build up to the day. I applied this approach last year to my A event and it worked well for me.

My questions for those who have done VERY long days in the saddle are:

• what nutrition lessons are transferable for me in terms of fuelling such an all-day effort?
• What approach is optimal for breaks / stopping
• From a riding fatigue (arms / shoulders / back / saddle sores etc). is there anything specific that I can do / need to be aware of that wouldn’t apply to a ‘regular’ ride but needs considering for such a longer day?
• anything unexpected / not obvious that I need to think about that wouldn’t be immediately apparent
• Training wise - anything fundamental I should consider doing differently to what I’ve set out above?

Thanks in advance

[alexfthenakis]

Nutrition

• In my experience the difference between 100k and 200k is significant but beyond 200k it continues pretty much as you’d expect almost indefinitely - no additional changes in gut tolerance etc. If anything I maybe find that fuelling even gets a bit easier, with periods where I get really clear cravings to start taking in as much as 250g+ in an hour and then return to a more steady ~100g again - it all just feels a bit more instinctive.
• If anything gets more complicated for me beyond 200k it’s probably electrolyte intake - I’ve had situations where even a tiny bit too much in one of my bottles means I just can’t drink it. Works best for me to have just a very tiny bit in my carb mix for absorption but to get any significant electrolyte hit from salt tabs (I use precision hydration).
• Not sure how trypical it is for all of that fuelling stuff to start to become so instinctive and variable, but it’s certainly the case for me and my best way to take advantage of it is to basically separate the three main parts of my fuel so I have one bottle with plain water, one with ultra-concentrated carb mix, and then salt tabs. Then other than making sure I don’t drop below whatever minimum intake levels I decide to force myself to maintain, I kind of just consume whatever my body feels like it wants.
• I do really well on purely liquid fuel for pretty much all durations, but beyond 200k it probably starts to become pretty important to stop for a solid food break at some point - it’s a good idea to get some protein and some other stuff in your system when you’re going all day. Some people can probably do this happily on-bike throughout, but for me it works best to have a break and eat a meal of some kind.

Breaks
I’m not as strict as this but have always kept Mark Beaumont’s strategy in mind - he does his days in 4hr shifts with 15 minute breaks in between (I don’t know if it’s 3h45 / 15 or if a block is actually 4h15 including the break, but I’m not that disciplined anyway and it sounds like you probably don’t need to be for this effort either). I guess what I like about the concept is that it fits a standard work shift - 2x4h with a meal between. For a multi-day race I add an evening shift to make it 3x4hr. For a midsummer longest-day effort I’d guess you’re looking at more like 4x4hr (including breaks if you’ve got 16h daylight or +breaks if you live further from the equator and have 17-18h of sun). Since this isn’t a world record attempt like Mr Beaumont’s, I’d maybe suggest breaks of 20min, 40-60min, then another 20min. Shorter is better if you think you can handle it, but not if it means you get to the third break so cooked that it becomes an hour and a half of self-loathing. Maybe even add an extra 5m stretch break at each of the 2h marks if that seems right for you?

Fatigue/Fit
For me the inflection point where overuse injuries start to crop up is probably between the 300k and 400k mark so you might not have to worry about this so much, but I suspect that probably also depends on what length of ride you’re used to.

• I find it really helps to drop my saddle height by ~2mm for anything beyond 12h, and especially for multi-day events. I started doing it to accommodate clip-on TT bars (which were fine at normal saddle height up to 100mi but then the extra stretch in hamstrings became an issue), but now I find it helps mitigate a lot of the other weird niggles I get in knees, hips, and ankles as my body fatigues and my pedaling form starts to fade. The lower saddle height means strain on patella/front of knee is more likely, but that also only tends to happen under high-force pedalling efforts, which we shouldn’t really be doing on rides like this anyway.
• Strangely, somewhere between 200k and 300k is usually where any soreness/tightness in my lower back (from psoas / hip flexors) actually goes away. My guess is it’s the point at which those tight muscles get too tired to keep fighting me and finally start to relax. Not sure how typical this is.

Unexpected Stuff

• Impossible to over-emphasise how crucial it is to avoid surging above your target power, especially early on. You know this already with 200k rides but it just becomes even more important the longer you go (up to ~3 days, after which your legs just won’t let you surge beyond your abilities anyway).
• If you have the option of fitting easier gearing then do it - I’ve never wished for a harder gear in hour 10 but would nearly always have been grateful for an easier one.
• If you have any more relaxed version(s) of your bike fit then use them for this ride (an extra spacer under the stem or whatever). Being 5mm more aero in hours 1-5 is pointless if you spend hours 10-16 sitting up to stretch and riding the tops all the time. Don’t try to relax your fit unless it’s something you’re already familiar with though.
• If you’re doing a bunch of out-and-backs and the roads around you suit, then it might be possible to plan some routes to take advantage of how the wind changes throughout the day. 2h legs might not be enough to do this, but with 4h sorties you can turn them into loops and try to make sure you catch cross-winds instead of headwinds where possible, seek out tree cover or other shelter where the wind is slowing you down, and then try to catch your tailwinds on the most exposed sections of road. It can make a decent amount of difference, especially mentally!

Training

• In terms of training you really don’t need to do anything specific - you’re basically going to be trying to ride in the upper half of your z2 for the entire ride so the training is just about whatever it takes to make that power range as high as you can get it. The other stuff is just about preparing yourself for the logistics and mental/postural fatigue as best as you can.
• In terms of prep: practice your pit stops and rest breaks 2-3 times spread out over something like 4-10 weeks before your ‘event’. You don’t have to really get close to your target duration, but it would be good to try something like your first 4hr block, a break/refuel, and then part or all of your second 4hr block, maybe even practicing your second ‘break’ when you get home at the end of the ride and before you ‘finish’ the session. What’s it like swapping/refilling bottles, re-applying chamois creme and sunscreen, swapping spare layers, stretching, eating, attending to the bike (chain lube, tyre pressure, etc.), and then getting going again? Where are you using time inefficiently? What can you do to improve that? Since you’re doing out-and-back spokes I’d guess you’re going to use your house as ‘the pits’ - how much nutrition can you prep in advance, how many options can you make sure are readily available to you every time you get back there, and how efficiently can you lay it all out so that you need to do as little thinking as possible on the day?
• If you’re like me and do your intervals on the trainer and then try to do your longer rides outside, try doing a big long indoor session at or under your ‘event’ power target - in 2-3 hours you’ll get a sense of what that saddle is going to start to feel like after a much longer outside ride.

[Crytos2000]

That’s a very nice personal goal!
And excellent insights from Alex! He pretty much nailed it.

For nutrition, try different things before the event to know better what you need and adapt it as well depending on the weather and outside temperature. I recommend stopping for a solid meal break 2 or 3 times during your breaks. Liquid food gets me only so far (that’s also personal).
I like also to take more food than my “planned food” just in case…

From a more mental perspective, set a range of operating power to respect. This means not going over a certain limit (tempo/sweet spot for climbs and high Z2 for flat section). Because it’s easy to over/underdo it. And take some headphones with you for music or calling loved ones because 12h on the bike is long.
For me it was also helpful to get the road done ahead and check it for water supply, supermarkets, emergency train station, etc. It helps to have a goal and to know some important checkpoints before starting.

And finally, check your bike before leaving home, have a charged phone, battery pack, lamps, computer and other electronics you need. Obviously also take some tools and repair kit with you.

I’m always happy to hear other’s cyclist adventures, so feel free to report yours. Enjoy your ride!

[mimod]

Heat generation will fall as you get into the higher distances. This may be a good thing in the summer to some degree, but it’s still a bit unexpected. What might seem like ideal riding weather can give you the chills when you are “whole body” tired.

As you approach home (or any place you are using as a pit stop), have a mental plan for exactly what you will be doing there. As you get tired, it is easy to lose track of time and waste fifteen minutes staring off into space or looking at your phone. Have a plan and stick to it.

Turn off “auto-pause” on your bike computer. This will help you manage your off-the-bike time. Strava and other services will still give you a moving speed to brag about, but minimizing total elapsed time is all about off-bike efficiency.

Do not worry about your speed. Just keep moving forward at the pace you can sustain forever. Many of us doing long rides on the regular remove that data field from our screens because it’s often too depressing to see.

Good stuff from @alexfthenakis above.

Good luck and have fun!

[mq1]

Like others have already mentioned, plan your breaks in advance, that’s the easiest way to be faster. I usually try to stop only for a quick pee and every 3-6 hours for a shop. Never stop without a clear plan in mind, wasting extra 5-10 minutes stopped every hour adds up quickly over the day. If you must, slow down a bit for eating, but try to keep moving. Aerobars are good for that all day comfort.

Pacing wise, hold yourself back for the first few hours, after that in my experience your body will start to naturally push the most optimal all day power. Don’t stress the numbers.

Think back on your 200k long ride, did you get saddle sores/knee pain/ hand pain? That might be your weak spot and you can focus on fixing it before the big ride. Again, aerobars are really popular in the ultra crowd and for a good reason wouldn’t imagine doing long rides without them

Good luck and remember to enjoy

[dsirrom]

@alexfthenakis this is all fantastic advice and insight - thanks for taking the time to provide this for me

[dsirrom]

@Crytos2000 @mimod @mq1 - thank you all for the helpful insight and tips - all taken on board

The encouragement to have fun has got me uncharacteristically excited ahead of time already

[ivegotabike]

Good objective. Enjoy it.

My thought is this.

With “home” as the break point after each leg, think about how you are going to make sure it isn’t too tempting to stop for longer than planned / quit sooner than you would if you weren’t at home.

[alexfthenakis]

@mimod

Heat generation will fall as you get into the higher distances. This may be a good thing in the summer to some degree, but it’s still a bit unexpected. What might seem like ideal riding weather can give you the chills when you are “whole body” tired.

Really good point and especially worth considering if you have any particular problematic joints. Maybe not relevant depending on your climate but here in Scotland I’ve taken to just wearing merino knee warmers for these rides by default - when staying in z2-z3 they rarely get too hot even in summer. Plus I’m much more likely to make the effort to take them off when I need to than I am to do the reverse and stop to put them on when things cool off. My knees aren’t even bad really - it’s just the first place that overuse issues always crop up for me and keeping them warm is a big help with that.

Other good input from the others here too!

[ZackeryWeimer]

Awesome tips in here!! And it sounds like it’ll be an awesome ride.

• On nutrition, eat little and often – every 20-30 minutes be consuming a gel, a bar, or whatever it may be that you enjoy eating. I would also add try not to skip meals if that’s possible – a lunch break, while a lot of “pause time,” and really be helpful in terms of your energy levels!
• Regarding stops/pauses, I personally like to keep them as short as possible – my legs get pretty stiff if I’m stopped for too long and I find it hard to get going again. Other athletes prefer longer breaks, though, so this may be up to you to experiment with and figure out.
• I personally haven’t suffered much from physical fatigue in terms of form on the bike, but I think a bike fit would be super helpful for a ride like this if you haven’t had one before or if it has been a while (years) since your last one.
• I haven’t run into too many “unexpected” events on rides like these, but I’m sure others have more experience with these kinds of outings than I might (I’ve only done a handful compared to some athletes here who have done many) – but I’d say it’s better to be a little overprepared with equipment/food/tools/sunscreen and that sort of stuff than to try to ride with as little as possible.
• And as for training, I think that should be your most simple – sounds like you have a good idea of what you want to do and how to approach it, so simply follow along to your training plan that you have laid out and I think you’ll be in great shape for the ride!

[GoLongThenGoHome]

One basic tenet I follow during my many ultra distance events is “Reduce cognitive load”. It should be simple to execute, with not too much thinking required. That way, when I’m extremely fatigued, and brain not functioning fully, I still get things right.

When you are thinking of quitting

• Have something to eat and drink
• Take a break, which might mean a catnap.
• Start turning the pedals and give yourself shorter milestones
• Thoughts of quitting and not feeling great will pass, if you give it time.

Don’t let minor issues become ride ending. It can be tempting to ignore minor niggles whether that’s physical, nutritional, or mechanical or mental or other. If something is bothering you, tackle it before it escalate to the point if no return.

Lastly decide whether sunrise to sunset is important, or completing the distance is. What’s the priority?

[grwoolf]

I’m not an ultra guy, but have raced Unbound a couple times (320km) and I know several people who do the unbound XL (560km).

For 400k, I’d minimize stoppage time and basically treat it as a time trial. That’s probably a very individual decision though. If you want to take things in, take pics, connect with people, etc., that might take priority over keeping moving. Stop time adds up in a hurry, good or bad.

Simplify fueling and hydration. You can’t start with all of it, so figure out the stuff that you can count on at any store stop. Several of the ultra folks I know will bring enough hydration mix on their bike for the entire distance, but have “go-to” carb sources like candy bars or gummy candies to get the bulk of their calories. Again, this is a personal thing. All your body needs for 400k is carbs, water, and electrolytes, but some people do better when they can get some real food.

Schedule it to finish with daylight if possible. Unless you are really motoring, that means starting with a long ride in the dark before the sun comes up. But getting some hours in before sunrise has a lot of advantages. You should be at your freshest (mentally and physically) for the dark section. Also, sunrise has a “reset” effect for many people, almost like tricking your body into being fresh to start another ride. The alternative is finishing in the dark, can be more dangerous when tired and also a bit demoralizing for some.

Fitness wise, just as much volume and seat time as possible between now and then. You can mix in a little intensity, but volume will be key.

Maybe get a bike fit if you have concerns there. Honestly, the comfort factor is the biggest thing that keeps me from trying any of these longer efforts. My legs are tired at the end of Unbound, but the rest of my body is worse. Some of that is mitigated by having aero bars and mixing up positions, but it’s just a long day in the saddle. I find that keeping on top of my core work really helps with long rides, so something to consider there.

Good luck, sounds like a great goal and a fun adventure.

[JSTootell]

I’m a bit more relaxed when it comes to my large road rides. I just pick a direction on where I want to go, and start going. I adjust my route as I go. And I just stop at convenient places along the way (to be honest, mostly fast food).

Make it enjoyable.

[Crytos2000]

+1 on core training and general fitness training. It will help you get less fatigue on the shoulders, neck, arms, etc.

[AndrewBl]

All excellent and thorough responses. I’d just like to add a plug for UNplanned breaks…

When you start to get a niggle allow yourself to get off the bike and work it out before all the surrounding musculature stiffens up. Stretch a little bit, rotate your neck and torso a bit. I like to take some Tylenol for stuff like that. Take the time to grab a quick bite, review your nutrition. 3-5 minutes when your body needs it can be a good investment for your comfort and efficiency in the coming hours.

Another idea…see if you can get a friend to join you later in the day. Emphasize that they will be doing an easy ride. Having a companion to chat with helps you get off your own head for a bit.

Good luck!

[dsirrom]

@AndrewBl

Another idea…see if you can get a friend to join you later in the day.

I love this idea - thanks