I’ve tried Mono today (Threshold 2.4 OU session) and AI FTP is definitely wrong .
The over felt like over, but the under felt more like FTP. Adjusted the workout to -5% (FTP 328) and that felt more like OU. Manually adjusted my FTP back to 328 for now. But still wondering why AI FTP made the 344 estimation.
I’ve tried Mono today (Threshold 2.4 OU session) and AI FTP is definitely wrong .
I’m guessing it’s just a smaller bucket of available workouts that match the desired progression. If there was no ftp change then it would make sense as the next step. Probably there isnt an inbetween workout that would match. I suppose cazedero again would have maybe worked but could be a mismatch in the survey response vs output. Keep us updated!
- Yup, I totally agree. I reviewed that yesterday and edited above to add it when I remembered that research (parallel to your comment from the looks of it ):
You could also just do it without erg and see where you land, I generally don’t follow exact prescriptions for suprathreshold work, the goal is to just accumulate time at or near V02max anyways =)
Sure, but “targets be targets” and I consider this is a broader issue than this particular workout. I am interested in this from an AT & POL Plan perspective more than the workout I am to do tonight.
Besides that, I use the Workout Intensity adjustment in ERG instances where I want to make tweaks. I may do that here if needed. I am not overly nervous when I look at what I did last week and the pending workout.
My main question is more about when AT and if/when it should be handing out “Stretch” workouts. As mentioned, my time in POL is showing some notable differences from the many training phases I did in AT with all their other “normal” plans. I’d like to know if something is out of place here or if POL is deliberately operating on different guidelines compared to my broader AT experiences.
Okay circling back @mcneese.chad. I have some insight!
What you are experiencing is attributed to being on the Experimental Polarized Plan.
When finding a substitute for that Ramp Test for you, we’re filtering to only Polarized workouts, which means the best match for that day would have been Cazadero: a VO2max 5.5.
However, since you did that last week, so we exclude that from the candidates, and the next best polarized workout is Veladero.
There are a few ways we can address that in the future, including solutions as simple as just creating more Polarized workouts, but also some more complex solutions in the way Polarized workouts are profiled. It’s all being discussed internally for improvement!
In the meantime,
- You could do Cazadero instead of Veladero, or
- Find a different 5.5ish level VO2max workout, but understand it wont necessarily comply to the Polarized structure.
We’ll work on those improvements+updates, Chad. Thanks for bringing this up!
I appreciate the info and it aligns with what I was thinking might be the root cause(s).
I will have a look at other workouts, but may just bite the bullet and hit this one and see what happens
why is this the case?
A wee bug tonight. I ran AI FTP D a couple of nights agoon the web. I didn’t accept it and it substituted the ram for Grassy Ridge-3, all good!
I went to run Grassy Ridge-3 in the Android app tonight and it was still the ramp test. The pc app was the same (still the ramp) and only the web continued to show Grassy Ridge-3. I tried refreshing the apps but it was still the same so I ended up selecting Grassy Ridge-3 manually from the library.
I had the same problem this week (Android app refusing to pick up the replacement workout after triggering AI FTP)
I also had AT serve me up a harder VO2 workout than my last VO2 workout prior to the FTP bump, which was a bit odd. (This was in Sustained Power Build MV) I got through it though, and actually marked it down as hard, rather than the very hard rating I applied to my previous VO2 workouts, so I’m happy enough.
I stuck with the prescribed Veladero workout and it went well last night. With the combo of higher FTP, higher power target & shorter recovery this was a notably tougher workout than the one from last week without all that. But it was totally manageable and ended up rating it 3-Hard, even after extending 15 minutes and setting Endurance power for the remainder after the intervals.
I got several adaptations offered afterwards (changes to VO2 workouts as well as the upcoming Thresh), and accepted them all. Looked like good suggestions to me and I think this is largely on track despite what might have been a harder start than I have seen in other plans.
Looking into this now!
Okay @SaSha1103 and @nvalphen looked into your cases as well.
Adaptive Training will work in tandem with AI FTP Detection to ensure you get locked in with the right workouts at the right time, so that said, I encourage you to try workouts at your new FTP.
Your Progression Levels have already adjusted according to that increase to make a smooth transition to workout difficulties at the increased FTP, so I think you should take a crack at them!
Looking at your recent workouts, you’ve been crushing it and are absolutely ready for this step up.
If you’re up for it, please feel free to DM me if you want to go over your plan structure and add some goals/incorporate AT more effectively.
I want to make sure AT is driving your future workouts, and that requires some more context about how they’ve structured their plan in the past.
Let me know, I’m here to help!
@nvalphen, an error occurred when you ran FTP Detection!
We isolated the cause of that error and already released the fix for it, so you shouldn’t have that experience again!
I’m showing a more reasonably expected result for you right now, so go ahead and try running it again from your Account > ‘Detect My FTP’.
In the meantime, we’ll share this with the team to get a better idea of the error that occurred. #constantimprovement
Thanks for the quick fix!
308 sounds a lot better
After seeing chads post above I went back and looked at my calendar. I am using a standard plan and yesterday was scheduled the ramp test at the beginning of sweet spot base 2. I accepted the new ftp (a small increase). My ramp test was replaced with a vo2 max workout with a level of 5.1. My bo2 max progression level went from 4.9 (where a 5.1 would probably be productive) to 3.9 (where the 5.1 workout is a stretch) after the ftp update. In the past I have closed the app and upon reopening it have seen ramp test replacement workouts get adapted back to a productive workout for the new ftp/pl. so in my experience it seems like the replacement gets added based on the old PL and then only gets adapted for the new ftp/PL when the app (iOS) is closed and reopened.
Looking to add some extra ‘volume’ to my low volume traditional base plan I am doing over the winter (in week 2 of Trad Base I currently) and would like to choose the option that will have the most impact on my AI FTP. Which of the following options would help boost my AI FTP calculation?
A) choosing a higher PL workout as an alternate once or twice per week (Klammspitze instead of Fletcher, 20 more TSS, extra 30 mins, 0.1 lower IF, 0.4 higher PL)
B) adding an extra lower level endurance workout once per week (For example Carter 34 TSS, 45mins)
C) adding an extra lower level threshold workout once per week (For example Sanford -1 50 TSS, 45 mins)
Is the answer based on boosting your TSS the most or your PL, I expect both are factors but at the start of this plan AI FTP suggested a drop (I rejected it) put in a ticket and they couldn’t tell me why a drop was suggested but have continued on and haven’t had an issue.
If someone like Ivy looks into things related to that, I also had an issue last week where I did my Sunday workout (Gibraltar -3) on Saturday and it disappeared from Sunday on the App but stayed on the Sunday on the web calendar.
AI FTP Detection is now available for all TrainerRoad athletes! More info here: AI FTP Detection Is Now Available for Everyone! 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Awesome, Chad! Thanks so much for following up about this, I’m hardly surprised that one was manageable, you’re slaying.
Nonetheless, still brought this to the team for improvement of the Experimental POL Plans. Many thanks, you rule.
There’s a timegate on every plan that prevents being assigned the same workout in too close of succession. It doesn’t yield the best result for both motivation, and in your fitness progression to be doing the same workout the following week, in Chad’s example.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention!
If either app is open when the replacement workout is scheduled, it gets locked with the Ramp Test and results in an error. We’ve reported this to the team and will work on a fix!
A suggestion to prevent this in the short term is to make sure not to leave the TrainerRoad apps open for extended periods of time between uses. Issues like this are typically more common behavior with mobile devices rather than desktop, but that should help in the meantime while we work on that fix.