πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰ Introducing AI FTP Detection πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰πŸŽ‰

I did it on the web. Showed ramp test in both app(ios) and web.

Not sure if this is already discussed but is there, and if there isn’t there should be, a dialog box when you click the AI FTP button to confirm you are sure before spending your once-every-28-days bullet to calculate your new FTP?

I feel like I got burnt once or twice hitting it when I didn’t necessarily want it to compute my FTP.

@SarahLaverty
@IvyAudrain

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Good news! There is now a dialogue box that appears to make sure you want to proceed to detect a new FTP. It looks like this:

You haven’t seen it yet because the last time you successfully used FTP detection (ie got a new detection) we were still on the previous version and didn’t have that disclaimer yet.
The last time you tried to use FTP detection, you were within 28 days of your last detection and got blocked by the 28 day gate.

Now, you’ll see the disclaimer before you get a new detection, and will have to go through the multiple steps to view and either β€˜Accept’, or keep your previous FTP. Woo!

If you’re worried about β€˜getting burned’ because your Progression Levels changed after you accidentally accepted an AI FTP Detection result: they’ll change again once you manually edit your FTP.

You can do this from your Account, and view your prior FTP history if you cant remember what your previous FTP was, and manually change it back.

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This is awesome, thank you!

Got to experience the described behavior this morning.
Worked like a charm. Two thumbs up!

@IvyAudrain Ai ftp bumped my ftp from 322 to 344. But I’m pretty sure this isn’t correct. Does the team need to know this kind of unexpected behavior? And if so, is a support ticket the best route?

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And mine dropped from 304 to 261… ( last workout was a 3.7 threshold workout…) So I would assume it still to be around 300

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I appreciate the updates in the access (AIFTPD now shown on the calendar on the day the Ramp Test is added), and the following messaging after accepting the new FTP:

My only complaint is parallel to that mentioned in the other POL related topics. The workout that replaced Ramp Test in the process, is a notable Workout Level that is a β€œStretch” workout for me.

image

Since the reduction in Progression Levels is meant to β€œease us in” to the new FTP and related workouts, this workout seems out of place to me. Perhaps this will update with a new adaptation offering tomorrow, but I also had a Stretch as my first workout when doing my first POL Base, so this seems to mirror that experience.

Thoughts @IvyAudrain or @SarahLaverty?

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Thanks, Chad!
Looking into this now for you. :+1:

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@SaSha1103 and @nvalphen looking into your cases as well. Hold plz.

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I just loaded the polarized build block to start tomorrow and noticed something similar - VO2 and Threshold workouts all appearing as stretch workouts. Endurance all marked as productive for the 8 week block.

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Put aside progression levels and look at tiz does that seem like something you couldnt do?

I have a similar (no exact) newbie observation: I triggered a AI FTP detection not on a FTP test day but on a regular workout day. My observation:

  1. The progression levels adjusted properly
  2. There was no adaptation of the next workout (or any workout). Basically whatever workout was scheduled for the next day after I triggered the AI FTP detection, that remained in place, so it was significantly harder than initially scheduled (same level but increased FTP).
  3. After doing the first workout then I received a large number of adaptations.

In short: my experience is that adaptations don’t properly happen after AI FTP detection but only after doing the first workout AFTER the AI FTP detection, making that first workout a little weird, in terms of effort.

So my unproven theory is that @mcneese.chad received that workout because it was still based on the pre-FTP change progression level.

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Great question. Here is the last related workout I did (Cazadero) and the pending one the calendar (Veladero). I rated that prior workout a 2-Moderate, and expected I could see a step up in difficulty.

image - image

  1. Quite similar with a minor increase in power, but an important cut to the recovery interval duration.
  2. But when you add in the fact that my FTP increased 5w (2.1%), I get a β€œdouble-dip” increase from the 2% increase in the interval target, on top of the FTP increase.
  • Prior interval power target was 285w, new target is 296w. Not a huge change, but not something to ignore either when coupled with the shorter recovery.

I suspect I can do the workout (based on last weeks result) and will report back after doing it tonight. But I take issue with the very first workout in a new plan phase being something that looks like a fair challenge.

It is counter to what TR has mentioned for years since introducing AT and saying that the PL drop and new plan progression is meant to make the start of a phase more manageable. Maybe this is all β€œright” and just a result of multiple factors (my prior rating, POL progression goals, whatever other magic we don’t know), but I find this at least questionable and not intuitive.

Considering my prior AT experience in other plans, this seems a bit off to me.


To be honest, even if I can do this, it makes no sense to me with an apparent β€œhard start” in the present state. I just don’t think a β€œStretch” level workout seems like what they intend. As @ggarcea thinks, I predict that what I am experiencing is the result of:

  • a training plan being added to my calendar based upon my 238w FTP & PL’s that were current at that moment, but made β€œold” upon running the AIFTPD (higher FTP and lower PL’s).

  • In other plan states similar to this, I have had AT offer adaptations either right on the tail of the AIFTPD update, or the very day after… to match the revised FTP & PL changes. Those all functioned as I would expect and what TR has said should happen.

  • Considering the experimental state of POL plans, I expect this result is essentially a bug or unintended behavior that doesn’t match desired intent present in the non-POL plans.


ETA: Another oddity, is that the workout TR applied to replace the Ramp Test is the very same one set for next week.

I totally understand and expect pending workouts to be adapted, but it just seems odd to have matching workouts two weeks in a row as the β€œdefault” just starting a new phase. Based on my review of Alternates for this workout, I suspect this may be a result of too few options that meet the basic goals of this workout range, and the step seen here is the only one possible.

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I’ve tried Mono today (Threshold 2.4 OU session) and AI FTP is definitely wrong :smiley: .
The over felt like over, but the under felt more like FTP. Adjusted the workout to -5% (FTP 328) and that felt more like OU. Manually adjusted my FTP back to 328 for now. But still wondering why AI FTP made the 344 estimation.

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I’m guessing it’s just a smaller bucket of available workouts that match the desired progression. If there was no ftp change then it would make sense as the next step. Probably there isnt an inbetween workout that would match. I suppose cazedero again would have maybe worked but could be a mismatch in the survey response vs output. Keep us updated!

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  • Yup, I totally agree. I reviewed that yesterday and edited above to add it when I remembered that research (parallel to your comment from the looks of it :stuck_out_tongue: ):
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You could also just do it without erg and see where you land, I generally don’t follow exact prescriptions for suprathreshold work, the goal is to just accumulate time at or near V02max anyways =)

Sure, but β€œtargets be targets” and I consider this is a broader issue than this particular workout. I am interested in this from an AT & POL Plan perspective more than the workout I am to do tonight.

Besides that, I use the Workout Intensity adjustment in ERG instances where I want to make tweaks. I may do that here if needed. I am not overly nervous when I look at what I did last week and the pending workout.

My main question is more about when AT and if/when it should be handing out β€œStretch” workouts. As mentioned, my time in POL is showing some notable differences from the many training phases I did in AT with all their other β€œnormal” plans. I’d like to know if something is out of place here or if POL is deliberately operating on different guidelines compared to my broader AT experiences.

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Okay circling back @mcneese.chad. I have some insight!

What you are experiencing is attributed to being on the Experimental Polarized Plan.
When finding a substitute for that Ramp Test for you, we’re filtering to only Polarized workouts, which means the best match for that day would have been Cazadero: a VO2max 5.5.
However, since you did that last week, so we exclude that from the candidates, and the next best polarized workout is Veladero.

There are a few ways we can address that in the future, including solutions as simple as just creating more Polarized workouts, but also some more complex solutions in the way Polarized workouts are profiled. It’s all being discussed internally for improvement!

In the meantime,

  1. You could do Cazadero instead of Veladero, or
  2. Find a different 5.5ish level VO2max workout, but understand it wont necessarily comply to the Polarized structure.

We’ll work on those improvements+updates, Chad. Thanks for bringing this up!

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