Having not dealt with AT affecting my training plan (since I’m not following a TR plan), this is my biggest pet peave with AT. Such huge (sometimes seemingly completely random) changes in progression levels with small changes in FTP.
1 Like
Yup, I am not excited about my next FTP test because of this. I have still not seen any comment on the massive reductions showing up from these other than the acknowledgement that they are looking into it.
If it’s a bug, it would be nice to know it, and that they are looking to fix it.
If it’s intended behavior, I’d like to understand why, because it sure is not obvious to me.
2 Likes
On the survey response saving issue:
- After some work with the TR support team, it appears that this could be tied to it taking time for the TR app to save the survey response - separate from saving the workout - to the TR back-end
- So if you are having issues, try leaving the TR app open for a while after completing a workout - don’t quit the app immediately after completing the workout and completing the survey.
I saw this manifested for me as: I quit TR as I normally did after completing the survey. When I checked on the web, the survey was showing as missing. I then re-launched the TR and, and the app showed the survey response. I caught a screenshot showing this. Right after I captured the screen shot, I saw the survey response show-up in the web browser. Luckily I caught the screen shot showing the TR App / web browser discrepancy before the web / TR back-end was updated.
1 Like
There really should be a way to override the struggle survey (both for indoors and out). I’ve had to go to the door for shopping because they’d turned up early, and I’m sure people have had to stop their kids / pets from getting up to all sorts of mischief etc etc.
“No, it wasn’t a struggle. It was…”
“1 - 5”
2 Likes
2-3% off a ramp test would be a big change for me, and I’d for sure struggle or fail threshold and above workouts if they stayed at the same progression level. 2-3% is often the difference between making and failing very hard workouts.
4 Likes
Hey all, I checked in with our developers on this, and it’s indeed a point of refinement currently being worked on in some updates to Adaptive Training’s logic. As for whether it’s a bug or intended, the best answer to both is “yes, sort of.” Ideally, your Progression Levels should adjust with your FTP to guide you smoothly into your newly more-intense workouts. I can personally attest that when it works, it’s incredible, and a game-changer. But a some athletes are finding, it can over or under-compensate, which is certainly not what we intend. Since the specific relationship between FTP and Progression Levels is nuanced and differs not only from zone-to-zone but from athlete-to-athlete, it’s a complicated and ongoing project to refine it, and is one of the major tasks the beta is helping us to work on. As always, we appreciate the ongoing feedback, and are particularly appreciative that everyone on the beta has been so constructive in their criticism and patient as we work towards perfecting AT.
16 Likes
This makes me a bit nervous to hear. Knowing the limitations of AI against the variability of how I feel on any given day, I’m hope we aren’t expecting too much on what the AT can do. One thing I’ve been wanting for a while is better guidance in the app itself on ranges of productivity for any given workout. I know there is guidance to reduce the intensity by 3-5% if struggling, but I’d prefer to just have an explicit target range that is appropriately +/- the nominal number for every interval rather than a single target number.
I’d trust a model to handle the larger scale targets, but I don’t expect it to be super dialed in on any given day or zone.
1 Like
Hi Sean, having progressions automatically ‘flex’ targets is awesome in particular if you don’t have a lot of experience doing that yourself. I’m going to put on my captain obvious hat and point out that you are dealing with two adaptive systems (humans and the AT software), so it is completely reasonable that sometimes the entire system (athlete+AT) can under or over compensate. In fact it should be an expected outcome for some % of athletes using AT, and therefore the real question is how you intend to handle those adjustments (from the athlete’s point-of-view).
Because it seems if you expect a high level of perfection - say an extremely low % athletes seeing discord between two adaptive systems - one might conclude that everyone will be waiting a long time for it to leave beta. And that if you offer some convenient option to override, it might leave beta sooner.
Just thinking out loud.
2 Likes
For sure- all options are on the table. Once again, we appreciate every suggestion and bit of criticism/feedback/glowing testimonial! We read every post in here and take them all to heart.
1 Like
I did a 2.5 hour custom endurance ride that had 4 short threshold efforts. The ride was rated in progression by AT as Threshold with no impact on endurance level. This really should have been rated as an endurance ride with little impact on threshold.
Is there a table similar to this on an AT training info page somewhere? If not, then there should be. It is an excellent starting point for either creating your own evaluation criteria or just using it as-is if you feel it is applicable - I now have a laminated copy next to my trainer to aid in a more consistent ride evaluation.
(Note: I did a quick search on Ride Survey on the TR Training Blog to see if something similar existed but nothing immediately obvious was returned apologies if my search was inadequate.)
Could someone please remind me of the appropriate survey responses relative you how you did on a work out please. Also how they relate to the level of progression (eg easier sessions vs progressive etc.). Failed vs struggled.
There is so much noise and so many comments on this I can’t find what I am looking for. (I think @mcneese.chad summarised them at one point).
I am not on AT yet, but wanted to start noting how I was doing relative to the workouts I am currently completing and their digfficulty levels.
Thanks
There’s no right or wrong answer- don’t overthink it. Just be honest with it, and imagine someone was asking you “how hard was that workout?” What would you say? That’s the answer. There’s also no “expected” answer relative to the difficulty of a workout.
4 Likes
Sir, this is the TrainerRoad forum.
53 Likes
Clearly I underthought that response.
41 Likes
Does AT apply to a customized plan? Say for example I add a recovery week to SSB1, right after the 3rd week. Will I still get adaptation from AT?
Unfortunately - no. As of now it only works on plans that are put on your calendar by plan builder. So if you add a TR plan to the calendar manually or build your own plan it will not make any adaptations.
This is ‘in progress’ but not yet released.
I’m currently in the AT beta and doing a TR polarized plan - which can’t be added by plan builder so I get progression level updates but it doesn’t adjust my workouts
2 Likes
2 things. Does anyone know if you ‘push’ a week in your calendar when you are on a planbuilder plan does that break AT’s ability to modify workouts in future weeks?
#2, byoungxprt I am not sure the system will ever see that thing as endurance. It will see it as a some threshold with some sort of sweetspot intervals. I think what it means by endurance in this context is z2. That said, they have stated AT + custom workouts is work in progress so results are not well defined right now.
Great question. I’m likely to move a workout from next week into the weekend as I have nothing scheduled from plan builder. If I manually add a few workouts instead it sounds like they will not count towards any adaptation. Maybe I’ll just do some easy recovery sessions instead.