Intervals.icu has me detraining. Maybe inconsistent TSS for non-trainer rides?

Training
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Alright, trying to figure out what I’m looking at. Intervals.icu has me detraining for multiple weeks now. I know TR goes through a 3 week block with recovery week, but since the trends gone on for weeks I don’t think it’s just a taper…

First Chart! Intervals.icu

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The top graph is my Fitness(CTL)/Load(TSS) and optimal zone. You can that somewhere around Apri 23rd, it has me out of the optimal zone and it stays there till today…

The bottom chart is my weekly load/tss totals.

Looking at my TR calendar, the TSS mostly lines up. The Trainer rides are on point to the number at most 1 or 2 points off for TSS between TR and Intervals.

But for outdoor rides, even the ones on my bike with power, there are significant differences.

For example, I went on a 3 hour ride yesterday on my Crux which has a quarq spider. TR puts this ride at 170 TSS. Intervals has it at 135 TSS. So TR is 26% higher TSS than intervals.

I see similar disparities on my MTB rides, which do not have power only HR.

The more outdoor I do, the larger the weekly aggregate TSS gap.

I checked things like: Avg HR, Max HR, speed, time, power profile when available. These all look consistent.

There could be something else contributing, but this definitely is part of it. I think as the weather gets better and I’m getting out more, the skew is growing. Like I’m going from 100% indoor, to 2 or 3 outdoors a week sometimes.

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Intervals allows you to have different FTP numbers for outdoors and indoors, in Settings. I would guess those are different numbers.

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Ok, this set me on the right track.

I’d set up individual profiles for ride types so intervals would automatically add the right ride equipment profile for each ride when it uploads.

I had to synchronize the inside/outside FTP for the other profiles.

BUT that only solved 1/2 the issue. Now my rides with the power meter match up (great). But the non-power rides were still off a good bit…sometimes 100% higher in TR for lower values of TSS. But, I think this is likely due to different ways of estimating HR stress.

Sooo, I went through since April 21 and just overrode the TSS values in intervals with the TR values. Now each week’s aggregate score is within a few points.

But it did not drop the TSS line enough to fall into the optimal. It does dip into it a bit more, but not much.

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I wish TR had something like the Fitness graphs in intervals so I’d know if TR thinks I’m in the optimal zone…but maybe, by definition, it always thinks your in the optimal zone cause that’s what the AI is trying to do.

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The CTL (“fitness”) and “optimal” training load charts are made based on a lot of assumptions about how much load and ramp rate is appropriate for you. Those are supposed to represent the “average” athlete, but there’s no specific tailoring of that to you. So you get a lot of numbers and can see everything under the hood, but you need to learn by experience what numbers work well for your body. It also doesn’t tell you anything about what training is a good match for your goals or if you’re recovering correctly, only how much stress you put your body under.

TR tries to use AI to adapt training specific to you and give you the right load. So it’s specific to you, but you don’t get to see anything under the hood. You have to trust the process. Or if you know what works for you, you can ignore the recommendations and do your own thing and train the model to accept what you’re capable of (though TR probably doesn’t like people doing that). And TR is guiding you on the right workouts for your goals and trying to enforce good recovery.

Pick your approach, but either way likely has some trial and error to find the amount and type of training that is productive for you. If you’re new to cycling training, the TR approach is safer. Just be sure to set the plan aggressiveness appropriately. Too easy and you may stagnate, too hard and tool burn out. Listen to your body.

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:backhand_index_pointing_up:

What @huges84 said.

Trying to get TR and another software to align can be like comparing apples to oranges. :red_apple: :tangerine:

It’s like comparing two training plans from two different coaches. There may be some similarities, but ultimately, they aren’t the same.

Which one is right? The one that works best for you in the long term. :grin:

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yeah, looking back I see some other patterns.

One is my schedule was something like MTW, Th off, Fri, Sat, Sun off.

But Weekends are pretty fluid for me due to family schedules. Sometimes Saturday, sometimes Sunday I do my long ride.

I saw a consistent pattern where I’d do the long ride on Sunday. TR would adapt the plan and mark Monday yellow, down grade the high intensity day to an easy endurance, and sometimes downgrade T/Wed too. The end result was a much lower TSS for the week than originally planned.

This week, instead of downgrading I move the schedule forward a day and took Monday off. Nailed the VO2 max today and it actually increased difficulty in the adaptation.

When only using intervals and focusing on ramp/TSS, this is basically what I’d do myself. Take a day, then increase intensity if I had a hard ride.

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Yeah, it’s all dynamic. Once you are training five or more days a week, missing a workout or pushing/pulling things around your week can have a big impact.

In those situations, TR is doing its best to make arrangements for success long term. If your long ride gets bumped to Sunday, it might not make sense to do a really hard workout on Monday. Pushing Monday to Tuesday, then continues to kick the can down the road. Skipping an easy ride in favor of a key workout can work sometimes, but you just need to be careful that you’re not bumping hard days together or bookending your weeks with stressful workouts.

Also, keep in mind that what’s on your TR calendar a week from now might not be the workout you’ll actually end up doing… :date:

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To stay in the green zone troughout the season you‘d have to continuously increase training stress as you get fitter. I think this is neither advisable nor achievable over the long run as ultimately you‘ll hit a fitness plateau and stagnate or burn out.

If you’re using TRs AI Training tool I‘d completely disregard what intervals says in the short term and only observe what happens in the long run

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