First two train now workouts...pretty easy...what am I doing wrong?

I did my first two TR workouts this week after taking a ramp test a few months back. It probably wasn’t my best effort, but close enough. I found the first two 1 hour workouts to be quite easy. I used the train now feature and did one climbing and one attacking workout. My TSS is nowhere near what I would get with an average outdoor ride. Albeit those are more like 90 minutes on average, but still, talking about a TSS of 1/3rd. The rest between intervals is crazy easy too. Am I doing something wrong or do I need to just give it time? Once the outdoor weather is really bad I will use a low volume training plan targeting 3 1hr workouts/week.

I’d do a new ramp test to have a current estimate of your FTP and start with the training plan now. You can do the workouts outside if the weather permits.

I was thinking about a new FTP test, but there is no way it will have moved by more than a few points, which wouldn’t make a difference. I also could never effectively do a workout outside with all the traffic etc. Just not a great spot for it, hence the decision to wait on a plan.

In my case, my FTP is 241 and on outdoor rides I am typically averaging 190-200 watts, with normalized power in the 220-240 range for 90 minute rides. This makes these interval workouts hovering +/- FTP then recoveries in the 100 watt range just plain boring.

Sounds like normal workout. 90 min with IF 1.0 would be very hard workout not sustainable for a long training plan. If you are bored go longer. Choose different workout or some one, long workout like Phoenix+2. Not every workout should be smash fest, on The contrary - workouts should be sustainable in a long term. If you want to go really hard- choose some vo2 max workout with long intervals and smash them as hard as you can in resistance mode. Do this 3x a week day by day for 3 weeks and then embrace the easy days :wink:

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I don’t always have time to go longer. And part of what I need to learn is every workout doesn’t need to be intense. That said, it’s weird being so far below what I am able to do. I suppose I just need to give it more time.

Give it a couple of months - you’ll be crying out for easier workouts!

Recovery intervals are meant to be just that - recovery. They are deliberately easy to let you nail the hard interval that follows.

TSS - are you comparing apples with apples? I’ve just done a 4 1/2hr outdoor ride, TSS of 312, IF of 0.87. If I look at a workout with a comparable IF, in this case it was Kaweah, 90mins at an IF of 0.87 and the TSS is 113. The maths is easy, 4.5/1.5 = 3 so 3 x 113 = 339. That’s pretty similar in my book.

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Your TrainNow workouts will tell you the TSS before you do the ride. So, for example, if you see a ride in TN and it says “Achievable”, 60 minutes, 60 TSS, then just use the filters and alternate workout to pick one that says “Stretch” or “Challenging” with more TSS through higher IF, or choose one that is longer and therefore generates more TSS.

Also, are you using the same power meter indoors and out?

But you can go longer in intervals not necessarily workout duration. If you have 1h for a workout do warmup and go long for 1h@90%. It will be great workout that will benefit you. Have more time? Do 2x40@90% - also great workout. You can stack harder workouts back to back, so you have 2 days with harder workouts - that will give you another stimulus.

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It’s not the same power meter. Stages left crank outdoors and wahoo in erg mode indoors. I assume they are both decent and should be within a few percent of each other?

Left only power meter could definitely be part of the discrepancy.

it is very unlikely you’d have an FTP of 241 and yet do outdoor rides at those powers regularly. If you were doing that those rides should (would) feel like pretty darn hard efforts most of the time. For some perspective my FTP is around 280 and my hard rides have NP’s somewhere in the same range as you (although I am training for marathon XC so I’d expect some differences). It’s not impossible, but I bet your FTP is wrong.

Nope, you need to do a separate test for each power method as there can be quite a significant discrepancy. (my stages is ~20W lower than my trainer, or just under 10% in terms of my FTP which is more than enough to be working in an entirely different zone.)

Alternatively, you can use Powermatch in order to keep the measurement method consistent between both environments. However, the ramp test is low-stress enough that it might be worth performing again so you can rule that out as an issue.

Could be true. I do ride pretty hard when I ride. Not sure this helps any, but a solo ride of 30 miles with 1500ish ft vertical I’m averaging around 20mph. I weight about 160lbs.

Is there a way to track power on a TR workout with erg mode along with my power meter? I typically use a second bike without power meter on the trainer though.

My PMs and kickr are not within a few percent of each other. Unless you’ve done some side-by-side comparison that assumption might not be valid.

If you’re using a secondary bike that stays on the trainer retest your FTP using the same power data source as you do all your workouts with…

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Train Now uses your progression levels to recommend something that’s either achievable or productive. Achievable = less than or close to your current PL, Productive = slightly above your current PL.

The problem is, if you’ve just started or haven’t done any TR workouts at all recently, it doesn’t really know your true level and your PLs will be artificially low. I’d recommend, a) ensure you’re picking one that it lists as ‘productive’ over ‘achievable’ as this will slowly start to boost the level that TR sees you at, and/or b) take the recommended workout, then look it up on the site and look at its alternates - pick one that you think is at a better level for you.

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My FTP was set using the Wahoo in ERG mode, so that device stays consistent. It’s only my Stages power meter which is my only gauge for outdoor rides. I don’t care too much about that, but I guess it would be interesting to know how far off the Stages is with the Wahoo. Seems like that’s what I can find out with Powermatch?

If your L/R power balance is i.e. 55/45 then your Stages will be reading higher by a good margin. That’s the problem of single leg power meters when you compare with a smart trainer.

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Ride a workout with your trainer and record separate file on your bike computer. Then you can use https://analyze.dcrainmaker.com/ to compare the results. You will find out how off is your trainer to your pm. Try to do workouts with different kind of efforts- so some vo2 max, threshold, sst and endurance - discrepancy can change on different power levels.

The best solution would be using your pm bike on the trainer and using powermatch so you have one source of truth, but this way you will get info if your trainer is underpowered.

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Second that. Activate powermatch and test again. The result should be quite different from what it has been so far - I think you are going to surprise yourself :sunglasses: If it isn’t, doing an alternative test (20’ or 8’) might be worthwhile because: