Well sure, train your RUN sprint and your SWIM sprint if you’re a triathlete.
I guess if you’re a draft legal triathlete for ITU you need to train your sprint to catch back on.
Bottom line: TrAiN aLl ThE tHiNgS!
(to add) …at the right time, in the right order 
2 Likes
This is why I’m focusing on overall volume only and not using tss to gauge effectiveness of a particular training session. Sometimes those workouts are incredibly easy, sometimes they start easy and get harder, but my only rule is never go so hard that you cannot complete your next workout.
2 Likes
still trying to translate ISM training model / metabolic parameters into coggan zones? why doing that
…because thats the universal language used to describe training efforts here and in most discussions…and how pretty much every analaysis software tool descibes and categorises traiing analysis. Dont confuse how training is descibed in discussions with how its planned and objectives are set.
There’s really no need for this kind of commentary. It does nothing to further the conversation in any meaningful way and is simply argumentative.
“Be excellent to each other.”
3 Likes
it shows a major mistake people make trying to train in the right way. forget coggan zones. absolutly wrong and not working. never has and never will.
“Be excellent to each other.” - i agree 
1 Like
Hi team
I’ve been doing a lot of reading about ISM Z2 training including listening to a bunch of the recommended podcasts. This led me to what is perhaps a dumb question…
For the people who are adopting this model and know their LT1, how are you actually training to increase the amount of power you can produce at LT1? Is it anything other than lots of Z2 volume? @sryke you seem to have had impressive gains so curious if that’s just volume or anything else (e.g., fasted rides which ISM discourages) etc.
I looked at the INSCYD white paper and - at least for me - did not give me much to go on
1 Like
Just riding at LT1 with a fairly high volume. Under no circumstances would I mess around with fasted rights or so.
7 Likes
Similar here, lots of volume around LT1. I wouldn’t worry if I went slightly above up a hill. I did 4 months of it as my base training and saw about a 34 watt increase in power at LT1. No high intensity during this period.
The first time you guys measured lactate, did you make a guess where your LT1 might be?
Yes, but to determine the wattage steps +/- from what I think LT1 might be to ensure that I start low enough to get a good baseline determination. The lactate test thread has examples of these curves from a few of us along with protocols.
I ride this steady state stuff by heart rate. I triangulated my lt1 via talk test, MAF HR, and dfa alpha 1.
I think doing it by power is less optimal. My watts at 120-125bpm can be + or - 25 watts depending on how fresh I am.
2 Likes
Even testing by drawing lactate is going to have a substantial “range” to it, so like you point out, it’s probably “good enough” to triangulate it somehow. I did a dfa alpha 1 test, not sure it’s meaningful, but it did align with talk test and RPE a little bit.
Early on in my base starting here in a couple weeks, I’ll just ride at 65-70% of max HR (well below LT1) until my volume is where I want it… then eventually bump some of that up to 75% max HR (close to LT1), and then eventually add some time at tempo (80-83% max HR - at and slightly above LT1), and all of that will have me working at/around LT1 enough to make a difference. I might do another DFA a1 test, but I’ve got a pretty good idea that LT1 will start around 180W early in base and eventually end up closer to 195W and up as I get fitter.
I just don’t think the level of precision we fiddle around with here is truly necessary for almost all of us.
4 Likes
I based mine on “All day HR” which was seen on some epic ‘in it to finish it’ rides during the first year of cycling (2016).
For example this day with 8+ hours of climbing for the 5 climbs:
Average HR at average temp for the 5 climbs:
- 137bpm at 44F
- 140bpm at 65F
- 141bpm at 74F
- 137bpm at 81F
- 135bpm at 65F
Similar data for other long days of climbing.
In 2020 I tried lower 128-134bpm HR target, and then this past year I’ve experienced greater fitness gains by going back to targeting 136-142bpm and shooting for an average of 138bpm on my endurance rides.
1 Like
I’m just starting very low because I’m building volume up to average around 15hrs per week in base. Rather than try to add 25% volume AND do a lot at LT1/AeT, it makes sense to me to ramp volume at very low intensity first, then increase the intensity up. So Prep/Base 1 are all about building low intensity volume (with some short threshold work alongside it), Base 2 gets up to the average I want and introduces time at LT1/AeT… and then progress from there.
5 Likes
Hi !
I do lactate test to 3 juniors cyclist this afternoon.
My protocole was the San Millan protocol (2w/kg + 0.5w/kg every steps with intervals of 8min minimum).
There is a lot of difference in the results beetwen them.
The 3 have almost the same level but for one Z2 (baseline +0.5mmol) occurs at 72% of FTP (20’ test ×0.95) for the other one it’s 79% and for the last one it’s at 84% of FTP.
To the People who say “What % of FTP is Z2” there is not universal rule and very various beetwen everybody.
Sorry for my bad english I’m french.
17 Likes
Do you have the data on what their corresponding HR was as a % of maximum?
if you ride always at LT1 your base training and you have a body weight higher then 60kg and not super low capacitys you better have a overall pretty low volume or you are a machine of fueling.
1 Like
Yes for all of them it is beetwen 77 and 82% of their maximal heart rate (maximal for reel not predicted !).
A few months ago I found a study (which I can no longer find XD) which suggested that 80% of HR Max in an athlete could be considered as his first threshold (LT1, VT1). However, some candidates (the most trained) in this study had a first threshold of 88% FC Max!
This is in agreement with the values found today in my athletes who at the cardiac level are below this first threshold as suggested by zone 2 of San Millan.
8 Likes