Thx for the info. How often do you take reading for inflection pt? Every min? I’ve always used the finger b/c I’m doing it to myself.
I’m trying to find the right food for refueling on the bike. Homemade Irish Soda bread has been pretty good.
I do 10min steps with 20W increase.
On the bike I simply fuel with liquid carbs. Solid food is too much a hassle for me. Additionally I have my concerns about oral health with solid food. I generate enough of a deficit to enjoy proper food before and after my ride.
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Ok. Cool. Yeah solid food is a hassle, but I’m not sure liquid carbs would cover the longer rides. Anyway, thx for posting all the great data and replying.
My initial intention to move back to liquid carbs was for logistics actually. I find it much easier to take along larger amounts that way.
Long gone are those days where I tacked rice cakes to my bike because jersey pockets were already full.
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It’s also a lot in Seiler’s POL. If you’re doing 15hrs a week, it could be 3hrs of VO2max work. Considering the history of comments on this forum, very few people would be into doing a 2x1.5hr VO2/wk.
And…is that a tube of toothpaste taped to your tube?!
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but doesn’t Seiler say 80/20 session based, and at least 90/10 time (e.g. workload) based? Acutally more 95/5 time based?
no toothpaste, tube of energy gel
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Wow. That is impressive.
When San Millan is talking about 80/20, we’d need to know what he calls the 20%. He might be counting sweet spot and up in the 20%.
That’s how I understood it with the 20% at various other energy systems but I’m not sure what the split between them is
It is a Sponsor energy gel…? I used to live in Switzerland and got a bit addicted to those…
Ok maybe I did understand this wrong but he was not talking about 80/20 as in polarized (20 is vo2 max) rather than 80 is Z2 and 20 is hard (so anything above his inflection point, so probably Z4+) - this is how I understood this comment.
I don’t know, ISM is not even aware of the fact that 80/20 is supposed to be session based. Hence, this can’t be too important in his programming. He may like the overall principle of a lot of endurance riding.
How is he identifying the inflection point?
First rise above baseline?
yes, probably. However, the picture is already a few years old. Tested differnt “tubed” gels for my 11h A-race. Still mechanical gearing, those days 
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I did a talk test yesterday and my understanding from other articles is that it should be the point rigtht below where you are not able to talk for 30-40s. I did a 10w increment test with 5 min at each step.
For example at 220w, I was able to talk for 40s but I was breathing quite hard, but didn’t feel out of breath after. At 230w, I manage to talk but really had to stop between sentences to breathe and had to catch my breath after (still I wasn’t out of breath). I really feeled a difference between these two steps as I was still able to nose breath at 220w but not at 230w. It was clearly not confortable to talk at 220 but manageable.
For those of you who have a La meter, how do you feel when you reach the first inflection point? Would it fit the description above in term of talking/breathing?
Clearly for me it is not Zone 2, but more around 80-85% of FTP. I must say that I am not fat adapted and more a sprinter-type, so this threshold could be even higher for other people.
not necessarily. Max fat ox can be high for highly fat adapted athletes, but they may lack the breadth:
Drop off can be further to right for non-keto-or-whatever athletes.
Furthermore, I would assume that development of LT1/AeT/what-ever moves the entire curve to the right. Hence, percentage of ftp/vo2max/mlss/vt2/lt2/what-ever should not differ so much.
What really changes is this breadth, the more highly trained, the larger contribution of fat ox to higher intensity efforts. It’s this intra-muscular fat. One of the key adaptions to endurance training.
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The point being, with these endurance based models (Seiler, ISM, etc.), as sryke says, there is a lot of intensity; it’s a deceptively small amount on paper which can take you by surprise if you’ve never done this type of training.
Do not argue with that. If you take normal, polarized training and do 2x vo2 max and then proper endurance rides, this is WAY harder than 3x threshold per week (personal opinion and experience) so I agree fully with that. But om the other hand 2x threshold (or one threshold and one over/unders) + endurance rides over 2h is my sweet spot in terms of volume and fatigue, at the moment
Where did you get the infographic from?
Some more info and other graphics towards the bottom
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