I ❤️CARBS! (and so should you!)

I second that!

My pleasure.

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And what about electrolytes? In Europe I haven’t found easy access to sodium citrate. I was thinking about adding something like the Bulk electrolyte mix to it. Does it mess up the osmolality?

No it was a mixture of High5 and some own brand stuff I found in a drug store when I realised I was out of high5 and didn’t have enough time to order online. It was basically the same mix though. I have to have some malto included because I don’t tolerate mixes that have only glucose.

Good news. Osmolarity of solution matters much less than energy density / carb concentration. Unless you’re targeting really high sodium consumption rates and concentrations per unit volume of fluid, you’ll probably be fine. You’ll know by whether you get gut cramps or not. If no gut cramps, try more sodium, if needed.

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Could I ask, and sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere or is considered off topic, the mix to water solution recommendations between a standard 2:1 drink mix and something like beta fuel. From what I can see there a 2 supposed benefits, the ability to absorb more per hour but also states the ability to have more fuel in less water ratio.

I kind of get the idea the ratio may be beneficial for absorption, but when it comes to water concentration dependant in the ratio is that a big point? I know you need water but does the percentage of water in conjunction to the differing ratios matter? And either way, if you use either ratio enough could you just train more absorption?

I was only wondering as I have a bunch of 2:1 mix and as it gets colder heat I was thinking of just sticking it all as a strong mix in one bottle, but if I’d just need to chase with water from another bottle no real point!

How do you convince someone to abandon 16/8 fasting and take in some dang carbs?

Got a friend who’s regularly having poor workout performance. Every interval ride he will fade at least 10-15% by the end. His reaction is that he’s simply weak and needs to get more fit.

I try to tell him he should target at least 300c/hr (185lbs) every workout to keep himself fueled for the weeks worth of workouts. He’s shown that he’s performing when he does do this but just reverts back to his ways.

He posted a morning workout yesterday 2x20 @85% which should have been super doable after achieving 30min straight at ftp without fade and I bet he didn’t eat anything.

Tell him don’t get “stuck on stupid”.

If you ride with two 750 mL bottles is the idea that one bottle contains 80g of sugar and one is pure water? On the assumption you’ll drink both bottles over roughly two hours.

This would be for a brevet where you’ll spend most of the time in Z2 heart rates. In other words if I was doing a 10 hour ride I carry 400g of sugar with me, to add to bottles as I refill them. For much longer brevets lasting more than one day, you’d look to re supply the sugar as you go.

I carry spork on events , so would need to work out how many g I get on the spoon end.

Yes but can also go much more concentrated in front bottle to reduce number of times you need to mix more powder into it.

I would die from hypoglycemia and those around me would die from my hanger.

40g/hr isn’t much!

Self criticism like this, in conversations of fueling, is a hallmark of disordered eating patterns. Professional counseling for OCD and/or anxiety are probably useful. Tread lightly with copious empathy and compassion.

Unless thermally challenged, or starting dehydrated, water amounts and resultant concentrations matter much less than the carb ratios as long as you’re in a reasonable concentration range. ie. 60-150g/L. (6-15%).

Shoot, some folks can handle 15-25% solution for shorter or lower-intensity stuff as long as total carbs are ≤100g/hr and ratios are reasonable.

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I’ve just tried some calculations.

If we assume I’m averaging 160 watts, that translates to needing roughly 576 calories an hour, assuming 25% efficiency. Over 10 hours we have 5,760 calories burnt.

Taking on 40g of carbs an hour , near fat max so we can go with approx 48g of fats being oxidised per hour.

Calories from carbs = 40 x 4 = 160 calories
Calories from fat = 48 x 9 = 432 calories
Total = 582 calories per hour

Seems pretty in balance to me. But I guess you are younger and putting out much higher average power when in Z2 (50-75% max) heart rates.

I currently weigh 75kg, even at 10% body fat, I’ve got 7.5kg of fat to burn and the 10 hours has only got through 0.48kg of it.

I’d probably only be able to manage about 160 W for 10 hrs too, though I weigh 94kg and 10-11% BF.

You might be much better at fat ox than me.

I generally recommend out-consuming pure carb burn. Reasons:

  1. Reliance on carbs increases as fatigue increases. (assuming carbs are available)
  2. Hunger will mount as your kcal deficit increases throughout the ride. Carbs are more easily tolerated than dietary fats during exercise.
  3. If you do need any intensity at all, reliance on carbs will increase dramatically during those portions of the ride.
  4. Elevated blood sugar during exercise just feels better to me! Flirting with hypoglycemia off and on makes for a miserable experience when 8 hours into a ride.
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Out of interest in general on training / rest days how many carbs are people taking in including training fuel?

@dunk

3x20min Sweet Spot for me today! Around 2 hours total workout time.

Fuelling started yesterday evening already with more carbs than protein for dinner :slight_smile:

Then for breakfast 2 pieces of toast with Greek yoghurt and sugar free jam.

300g of rice and 100g of chicken for lunch.

Workout at 16:00-18:00 :alarm_clock: Had one gel with 60g carbs after the first interval.

Then dinner after was 200g rice, 300g chicken, 200g Greek yoghurt.

Totals: 335g carbs, 200g protein and 40g of fat for the day!

Got an easy 2hr ride tomorrow so a bit more protein after the ride today rather than carbs, would’ve had 100g rice for dinner if it was rest day tomorrow.

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FTP has a big impact on fueling requirements, how many kJs of work did you do on that two hour 3x20? I’m thinking a 250W ftp would be about 1200-1400kJs of work if I did that outside.

I agree here it was more just getting an idea of real world what people are doing to see if im way off the mark.

LT2/CP @ 285w

1381kj burned on the ride!

I never eat any carbs at all! But I do love carbs, carbs do not fuel my rides but they do provide the funds necessary to fund my rides (I’m a dentist :grin: )

How many carbs? Plenty :slight_smile:

grafik

Last Sunday was my final #push @AeT day. After a few weeks of #push, #push, #push

Sunday was 5000 kJ of work + 2000 kcal base ~ 7000 kcal

The 6h session was fuelled by 500g 2:1 malto/fructose + 3 or 4 bananase → ~100g/hr

→ ~ 2200 kcal → 7000 kcal - 2200 → 5000 kcal left for eating before/after session

Before (mainly two breakfasts):
1300 kcal with about 250g of carbs

→ 5000 - 1300 → 3700 kcal left for after the session

Post session:
hourly food intake until about 1.5 hrs before bed. Slightly more fat now but still mainly carbs. Of course, always some protein.

What was special, since this was a longer session. And since it was followed by a rest day I did not close the energy balance. Otherwise I would have had to eat too much and sleep could have been disrupted. It usually works for me not to close the energy balance before rest days. And it allows me to eat more on rest days. Win-win. However, if another session is scheduled for the next day I have to close the energy balance. Absolutely important. I’ve seen the importance of this over and over again. And usually sessions are shorter, requirement to eat is less.

Learned a lot about food intake with this #push.

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Ok wow granted im not doing mega 5 hour rides but am clocking up 10-12 hours a week this puts my 200g C a day into perspective probably not being enough. Might be why im fading after hour 1 in hard workouts.

For example today i did Tweed +8 and the last 3 reps were really really tough and i was flagging. That was with 25g sugar in the bottle plus about 30g from a flapjack eaten part way through.

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grafik

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