Hi, I just want to get to 5w/kg or, equivalently to like 350w ftp. But currently I am stuck at 4,5w/kg (315-320w) for 2 years. I am not sure what I am doing wrong.
Cycling for 6 years. But training with a plan for 3. Weighting around 71kg. 34 years old. Healthy diet.
2021 - 220 ftp
2022 - 280 ftp
In 2023, when I started with TR, I went from 280w in Jauary to 320w in August. This was 4,5w/kg. I was sooo happy. The progres was rapid. Since then I am stuck at exactly this number. I am not sure what I am doing wrong.
It feels to me that in 2023 it was “noob” gain/jump and since then I should slowly improve by something around 5-10w/year. And maybe stop at around 340-360w ftp @71kg. But I don’t improve at all. Even by 1w. I even slightly declined (to 313w this year).
Each year I ride around 400h (+50h weights, +100h cross training like running, skies). Since I got TR, I train always with it, with a training plan focusing on incresing ftp. Usually I do 8-10h/week. In 2024 I even started weight lifting (power lifting) and still I see no improvement in numbers. I am curius if I can hit 5w/kg by sticking to this amount of hours or do you think it is necessary to do something closer to 15h/week? I have to say that in 2024 and 2025 I cut very long rides and focused more on like 2-3h rides and doing TR workouts consitently. I feel that I might be pushing too hard, too much intervals. I don’t know. TR keeps recommending me 3 intervals per week, but I am always not sure when I should swap to 2 intervals when I up time on the bike outside. In base my week is: 2 x SS + 1 x Z4, build: SS, Z4, VO2, and speciality: vo2, vo2/Z4, Z4. Maybe TR plans are not the best tool to get to 5w/kg? Someone acheived 5w/kg with TR plans? I feel that TR is good for noob gains, but without big volume polarised plan, it might be hard to reach 5w/kg. But this is just my guess. What do you think? Can you reach 5w/kg on SS base plan? Also… this might be an interesting explaantion of my stagnation… my Z2 range is: 190-240. I tend to do Z2 rides at 230, even for 2h or more When I do 60-90min, I push even 240. Maybe the problem is that I am pushing too hard?I almost never ride at low or even middle Z2. Only occasionally, like once a month, when I do 5h ride with friends.
I am interested to hear how did you reach your 5w/kg or something close to it. Did someone faced stagnation and overcomed it? How? By improving non-training stuff (recovery, diet)? Hours on bike? Did you used TR plans or not?
P.S. Guys, is 6 weeks daily avarage TSS on TR just CTL? If so, my CTL in 2023 when I reached 320 ftp was 70-75. In 2024 and 2025 it was closer to 50-60. Maybe that’s the reason I am not progressing. And even the reason my I am declining. I am just not doing enough work. Although I am not sure how is this possible becasue I feel that I work hard all the time Maybe the problem is that I do too much intervals/too hard z2. Very often I feel I push to the limits, but it looks like that such a method of training does not allow me to hold 70-80 CTL for a long periond of time. Maybe it would be easier on polarised plan. Maybe piramidal requires better recovery than polarised.
Ive done it twice with TR MV plans. Once before my Op, then a couple of years after it. I’m currently hovering about at just over 4 w/kg now I’ve stepped down to a LV plan. It takes volume and drive IMO.
Yeah, I feel the same. That I need up volume. I train like time constrained althlete. Thanks for that advice. I also agree that this is some kind of limitation of TR. It works well for someone who trains around 6h/week, but if you want to do more, these plans become inadequate.
Interesting that you have lost that much. I always thought that when I reach some treshold, like 5,0w/kg, when I reduce training load, I will come down to 4,5, not 4,0. Currently, when I go into maintance mode, I go down from 4,5 to something around 4,0. But probably the higher w/kg, the bigger the decrese is when you reduce training load.
Were you adding something into MV plans? E.g., additonal Z2?
Maybe it’s age (50y) and Im riding more for fun than for training (especially in the summer just passed) but I’m sitting at 4.15w/kg at the moment. Whilst I still ride alot (over 9,500 miles this year), I use to ride a lot of extra focused Z2, race TTs and ride with faster groups too.
I would definitely keep trying to mix it up and see if you can get there, but the idea that we can just improve each year forever is kinda wrong. At some point, we reach our potential. Maybe you have reached yours, in terms of FTP? You can still get faster by becoming more durable, more aero, being better at handling your bike, better at race strategy and playing the game. You could always address the kg side of the w/kg equation as well, but that only helps if you keep the watts. Can be done for sure.
Really? So you think there is no limit to your potential as an athlete? None whatsoever? You would be beating Pogi if only you had the time to train enough? Cmon.
I think we mostly agree. I think the OP should keep trying as well and that volume is the first place to start. We agree that if you always do the same thing, you will always get a similar result. And I also agree with you that it is just a number and that it may not be all that fulfilling once it is reached.
I gave a bunch of ways someone could get faster without changing their FTP, but I realize that most people don’t race anyway, so they may not care about those things. The only part I disagree on is the “99% of people on here are nowhere near their limit and never will be”. There are lots of people on here that work really hard and are probably within a couple percentage points of their absolute limit, so to say nowhere near is a bit much to me. I guess it depends what you mean by “nowhere near”. If you think everyone on here has another 20% hidden inside, I’d disagree. If you mean, they have 1-2% more they won’t unlock, then sure…that is more reasonable.
So when you did 15 hours and improved your FTP, was it unsustainable to keep it there when you dropped back down? Like couldn’t you just go to 10 hours and ride at the higher numbers?
I have wondered the same thing myself…like if I took a season and just made that my life…would I be able to maintain those numbers?
That might be the answer for OP…to take a few months and put the other activities into maintenance mode and crank up to 12 hours a week cycling. and see if that moves the needle at least a little bit. Then decide if you want to go deeper.
As a side note to OP: as others have said, I know you’re frustrated it’s not still going up…and I think there’s a way to improve, but with all you do, just maintaining that high level is a win for sure. Not saying to be satisfied, but def celebrate that victory and whatever you’re doing as been working very well. Might just need a small tweak at this point. I don’t think anyone is gonna have the answer for you…you’re gonna have to just try a bunch of stuff. ^ volume? different intervals? Less intervals but go deeper / harder? Who knows…that’s your puzzle to figure out. I am looking forward to other people’s solutions in this thread though. Great topic.
Yeah, it’s hard to say what would move the needle. You seem to have the structure and intervals covered, and you sound like you are very consistent doing that. Huge check marks there! I’m thinking it’s your overall volume that needs a shakeup. When I say volume, I mean your hours and load. Your CTL does look on the low end to me.
In contrast, I’m 50 years old and do zero structure, no intervals, but have a much higher CTL. I peak around 118-120, and now hover around 100 CTL. Maybe I’m underestimating my FTP for parts of the year, but it can’t be too far off. I sit around 4.5-4.6 w/kg pretty consistently if my weight stays constant. I’m not saying this is the best way, but a block of less structure, but more volume could move the needle - I don’t see a downside, unless you really like the structure and that’s what motivates you to be consistent.
I haven’t quite done this with cycling but with other sports what I’ve seen is that yes, you can maintain it for a while but eventually you will see a drop. Probably not back to where you were but a drop none the less. And that drop will be highly individual based on your physiology, how long you were at that higher number, how low you drop down after, what kind of training you did to get there, and what kind of training you do at the lower number.
But as a totally rough guesstimate, if you’re at 300W on 8 hours a week, and you go to 15+ hours and get to 350W, then drop back to 8-10W you can probably expect to be able to hover around 325-330W. But you might also see lower repeatability and less durability/endurance as well.
For OP, I think the number one thing is volume. If you have the ability to do 15 hours a week then you should do that. It might mean that 3 intervals a week is too much, especially because it sounds like you’re also lifting.
After that, you weren’t too specific about the actual intervals that you are doing but do you feel like the SS and Threshold workouts are progressing out to your TTE? Most TR workouts just won’t push you that far due to the time crunch. I’d suspect that if you’re at 4.5w/kg that you’re fit enough to be doing at least 90minutes of SS in a workout.
Have you ever done a VO2 block? Like 2-3 weeks with 6 VO2 workouts a week? It was something I did for the first time 2 years ago and saw a 20W FTP bump a month later. Then another 10W the next year after being a bit stagnant. It’s the hardest couple weeks on the bike but it seems to work.
I should add that this wasn’t with TR, I have a coach.
Hmm that’s interesting point. I am really curious, when (if) I would reach 5w/kg, what it would take to maintain it, or something close to it. I don’t have to sit at 360w ftp. I would he happy sitting at the range 340-360 or something like that. I simply need more absolute watts than 310-320 for certain Strva KOMs Espeically hilly TT.
I don’t think I have reached my potential. Ofc I dont claim that it is unlimited. But given that I rarely do 10+/week, I am far away from my limit. Maybe I have reached a limit in terms of what I can get riding 8-10h/week. But even in this case, I still I can improve recover etc., and do better with that time.
or, equivalently to like 350w ftp. But currently I am stuck at 4,5w/kg (315-320w) for 2 years. I am not sure what I am doing wrong.
Maybe the problem is that I do too much intervals/too hard z2. Very often I feel I push to the limits, but it looks like that such a method of training does not allow me to hold 70-80 CTL for a long periond of time. Maybe it would be easier on polarised plan. Maybe piramidal requires better recovery than polarised.
