I gave a bunch of ways someone could get faster without changing their FTP
Yeah, I achieved them when being stuck on 320 ftp. Even though my ftp is the same as it was in 2023, I am faster. I even climb faster, even though w/kg is the same. My Z2 is stronger, aero better, more efficient, can burn more carbs etc etc. Now I just need to increse ftp further. Otherwise there is no point at training besides maintaining what I got. I will try mix things up and up volume by few hours/week. Will see.
So when you did 15 hours and improved your FTP, was it unsustainable to keep it there when you dropped back down? Like couldnāt you just go to 10 hours and ride at the higher numbers?
It felt to me that I ride too much and donāt have time for other stuff in life. So I thought: maybe TR will allow me to increse FTP by doing less volume but more intensity (this is how they advertise them all the time) . It seems to me that this doesnt work after certain treshold. I think I have reached that and only bigger volume once again can give me better ftp. So I will need to leave cross training and do 12h+/week again. If thatās the case, and if I can maintain 5w/kg only by constantly doing 12hr+/week, I think it might be unsutainable in the long term.
Also, in 2023 I was following TR. When I reached 320, there was off season coming up. My ftp declined to 305. In another season I reached 320 near Autumn, so it was already too late for consistent training at new FTP. And basically the story is the same every year. I guess I need to do better base. Reach 320 ealier in the year.
Good luck, Iām right there with you. My main mission this winter is to raise the FTP as much as possible, if I can. Iāve already done all the other things and have been basically at the same general FTP area for a couple years. Last year I lowered my weight so my w/kg is much better now and I didnāt lose any power. But yeah, the only thing left seems to be just pushing on the pedals harder so that is my focus to see what I can wring out of myself. Iām trying slightly less volume, but going harder on my hard days so TSS will be similar. My endurance is great, I can ride all day every day. But I would love to raise my ceiling.
Let us know if you figure it out!
In contrast, Iām 50 years old and do zero structure, no intervals, but have a much higher CTL. I peak around 118-120, and now hover around 100 CTL. Maybe Iām underestimating my FTP for parts of the year, but it canāt be too far off. I sit around 4.5-4.6 w/kg pretty consistently if my weight stays constant. Iām not saying this is the best way, but a block of less structure, but more volume could move the needle - I donāt see a downside, unless you really like the structure and thatās what motivates you to be consistent.
Yeah, there seems to be an agreement here that more volume is needed to acheive 5w/kg, at least for me. I constantly do the structrue, but I rarely do 15h+/week or even long rides (4h+). In three years I got like 4 weeks like that. I need bigger CTL for sure.
Maybe you can get there, I wonder how you will feel if you doā¦ the trade offs and commitment might be not worth it. Its just a number.
I get the wanting more and the desire to improve, Iām just pointing out it can be overrated
Yeah. I agree it might be overated. My idea is this: push hard for 5w/kg. And then maintain power close to it for as many years as possible, but without training as hard as I initially did for acheving 5w/kg. I think that after you reach a certain new peak in the training, it is easier to reach it again. Body is already on another level, adapted, even if you detrain a little bit. Thatās my theory at least. It works on my current level. In order to maintain 4,5w/kg I can do much less volume than I initially had to do to acheive it for the first time.
Good luck, Iām right there with you. My main mission this winter is to raise the FTP as much as possible, if I can. Iāve already done all the other things and have been basically at the same general FTP area for a couple years. Last year I lowered my weight so my w/kg is much better now and I didnāt lose any power. But yeah, the only thing left seems to be just pushing on the pedals harder so that is my focus to see what I can wring out of myself. Iām trying slightly less volume, but going harder on my hard days so TSS will be similar. My endurance is great, I can ride all day every day. But I would love to raise my ceiling.
Let us know if you figure it out!
Thanks, good luck to you as well! I see you are in a similar position. I also lost few kgās recently. Now it is time to raise ftp.
See you on the damn trainer 
Yeah, to push a higher CTL, you will need to do less intensity for sure (at least at first). Your body will adapt to the higher load, and then you can layer more intensity on top. If done properly, this will raise your fitness and FTP. I was actually thinking I would attempt to do some actual consistent training myself, but at 50, Iām not sure the 5 w/kg is possible anymore. I was there in my early 40s with less effort. I fear it would take a huge effort/focus now to achieve that and I donāt think I would be committed enough to pull it off.
After that, you werenāt too specific about the actual intervals that you are doing but do you feel like the SS and Threshold workouts are progressing out to your TTE? Most TR workouts just wonāt push you that far due to the time crunch. Iād suspect that if youāre at 4.5w/kg that youāre fit enough to be doing at least 90minutes of SS in a workout.
Have you ever done a VO2 block? Like 2-3 weeks with 6 VO2 workouts a week? It was something I did for the first time 2 years ago and saw a 20W FTP bump a month later. Then another 10W the next year after being a bit stagnant. Itās the hardest couple weeks on the bike but it seems to work.
Every year I come close to SS/Z4 level 8 or something. So I do like 4 x 20 min @ SS or 3 x 20 at treshold. I also occasionally just ride 60 min @ ftp 
To trully test it. Actually, I love doing SS outside. Soā¦ it might be a sign to do more of things which I dont likeā¦ which is vo2/anerobic. I do 0 anerobic stuff. Do you? If yes, why?
I never reach those high levels in vo2. Usually end the season at level 5 or 6. I might be doing not enough vo2 workouts. I never did 2-3 weeks of pure vo2 to reach my peak. I was doing vo2 mainly in speciality phases, for 3-5 weeks. 1 vo2 training per week. Adding SS/Z4 besides it.
Perhaps you are on the right track. I need more Z5 and maybe even above. But I am not sure if Z6/7 are needed for incersing ftp. I dont race.
Thanks for your advice!
Tried that, didnt work 
Okay, thatās a decent amount. You could probably push it a bit further but sounds like youāre pretty much there. Just wanted to make sure you werenāt stopping at like 4x10 SS or something.
Yeah I do. But I also race crits primarily so itās more for race specific fitness that for general fitness building. Itās probably not totally necessary but sometimes having a bit more anaerobic fitness going into a VO2 block can help you go even harder during those shorter (but still heavily aerobic) intervals.
I think this is one aspect of TR plans that can slow some peopleās progress or at least lead to a bit of a plateau. They generally seem to program VO2s as you get closer to the races (i.e. specialty) as a means of getting better at VO2 efforts and not as a way to heavily stimulate the aerobic system to increase FTP. They also spread them out a decent amount where Iāve found the concentrated VO2 blocks really give great adaptations. Thereās a thread on doing them somewhere but hereās my calendar from a couple years ago when I did one:
The endurance and extra volume was done super easy (like 55-60%) so even though the hours were kept high the intensity was very low. Itās cut off just cause of the size of the screen but the 15th I did the Morning VO2 (of a planned double day) and was just so beat that we called it. I tried again on the 21st but was still way too tired.
Iām not a coach so I canāt say for sure itāll be what does it but it worked for me and is definitely a major stimulus. Just remember that you need to recover equally hard afterward. I basically then did 2.5 weeks of recovery with some endurance before testing with an easy FTP workout and even then it took another week or so for my legs (and new, higher FTP) to come around. Iāve heard some people can kinda screw it up by getting back to too much work too quickly and fatiguing themselves.
Here is an older article on what to do from Hunter Allen but it sounds brutal.
My simple analogy is that VO2max stuff raises the roof and threshold stuff supports/ reinforces it.
How long do you take for an off-season? What type of base work are you doing?
Things you can do right now to get betterā¦
If we presume you canāt really increase your weekly volume, here are my two recommendations.
First, I agree with @mwglow15 .
Though 6x VO2 per week might be tough in terms of compliance. Try a block of 3 weeks with 3 VO2Max workouts per week. Acute overload, then back off. Rest a week. Resume your typical stuff.
My second suggestion is that you take all of your TR-prescribed less-than-SS work (mostly endurance, maaaaaaybe some tempo), and put them into a single day, back to back. One very long ride. The thought is that if you canāt pour in more endurance volume per week, make the endurance volume you have harder. I havenāt found any papers comparing isovolumetric endurance spaced out vs concentrated within a single week, but this is my n=1 experience. Pretty harmless to try out though!
Have you tried just letting TR take the wheel completely on your training and seeing how it goes? Iāve done a lot of āsort ofā following a TR plan, but also making enough adjustments where itās debatable how well Iām following the plan.
This trainer season Iām making a concerted effort to just stick with the plan and follow the adaptations and so far so good. My FTP has gone from 350 to 361 over the last two months since Iāve let TR take the wheel (Iām 86-88 Kgs, so my W/Kg isnāt as impressive!). Iāve still failed a workout or two, but AI adaptations have responded appropriately.
Just something to try, if you havenāt already.
True I didnāt think about that too closely. I usually do about 4-5 for those blocks. I donāt think I ever did 6ā¦
I get a solid response from 3 per week, but these are hard-start KM VO2ās, not the TR VO2s. TRās VO2 programming tends to be easier and has less cumulative time at VO2max for otherwise identical intervals (eg, 4x4ās).
How long do you take for an off-season? What type of base work are you doing?
Usually I donāt do any break. I like/need training. But when summer ends, my TSS and intensity goes down. This is also because I add running to cycling. I start very slowly, with Z1 runs. Usually I train without a plan for 4-8 weeks. Usually in that period I dont touch higher zones than tempo. This is my ābreakā. Then I resume proper cycling training with TR plan in December or January. But keep running until Spring. Running is just Z2 stacking. Base work on the bike is for me TR SS base plan. I exend it by adding Z2 rides/runs. Usually do 300-350 TSS weeks in winter. This however gives only around 50 CTL. This might be too low number to be able to improve ftp beyond what I have currently.
Things you can do right now to get betterā¦
Sleep more.
Add in a targeted lifting plan.
More volume (as already mentioned).
Sleep more.
Yeah. I do lifting, although not with a plan. I plan to increse volume. But my sleep is not that good. I know I need to improve itā¦
