I have accepted the downward trend of my FTP with the new versions…..but I am confused as to why my program, which is FTP growth for MTB is primarily populated with endurance rides? All indoor is low TSS stuff and all my harder rides are outdoor. Further, what TR considers to be a hard ride for me is TSS of 75 and my normal rides end up being 130-200 TSS. TR has 4 years of my data and at least 2 years of that includes power meter on the bike.
So the questions are, why are all trainer rides endurance? Why are hard rides so conservative on TSS and if I am crushing them from an effort perspective, should that not be reflected in the plan?
When you built your plan did you choose the hard rides to be outside?
I think you can edit your plan. And choose what each one should be. On mobile click on the session I’m guessing is currently set to outdoor and change to indoor.
yes you can specify where each ride takes place and my preference is to do hard rides outside but if I did those rides to the TSS level specified, they would be ridiculously light efforts…..so the question is why it would not be accounting for the fact that my outdoor rides tend to be almost double the TSS prescribed. And if I am over cooking those rides is that what is causing my ftp to flat line? Every other day I have a yellow status….and I generally observe those but it seems like I can handle more load and if I was riding even less TSS I would detrain.
OMG no, they are generally hard driving MTB or fat bike rides that I would qualify as “hard” or “moderate” but are way higher than the prescribed effort I guess. The TR outdoor and group rides don’t specify anything other than general effort.
It looks like you’ve made both of your hard rides, Group Rides, which isn’t going to help you get much faster, given that your other three rides are easy and relatively short.
I’m seeing prescribed IFs of .85-.89 for those “hard” group rides, which seems about right to me.
For reference, the threshold workout “Isabel” is 60 minutes long, has 77 TSS, and an IF of .88, so that would be a fitting representation of what those “hard” group rides could look like, in theory.
Are both of those group rides going to be hard, and do you need to go on both each week?
The more quality structured work you can do, the more your fitness will increase.
I’d say, set at least one of your hard days to be a TR workout. You can do your workouts outside if you’re able to follow along with a power meter. They don’t have to be inside, but following some structure is what counts.
group rides are inherently hard because we push each other but one could be backed off certainly but the nature of cross country riding is that its pretty impossible to follow a power output directive because the terrain is so varied.
Doing both of the group rides might be the most fun, but it’s probably not the most productive.
Skipping both group rides and doing structured work instead might be the most productive, but likely won’t be as fun or motivating.
Figure out what your balance looks like. It might change from week to week, and you can right-click on any workout and switch a group ride to a workout, or a workout to a group ride, so if the weather is bad, switch your group rides to a workout and know that you’ll get a good stimulus that day.
Similarly, if you’re not interested in the trainer one day, switch to an outside workout or a group/solo ride.
Either way, it’s all about finding your priorities, putting a plan in place, being flexible, and enjoying the process.
You are on the mark here…..outside MTB is always fun so the logic was if TR wants to kick my butt, I will just do it and more on my outdoor rides…..and it will know what I did and adjust appropriately. Other than giving me a yellow, it does not feel like it gets factored.
I did not know about the right click switch! Great tip! Other than change the designation does switching do anything in the algorithm?
We are taking in all of the data from your unstructured rides, so keep that in mind.
The outcome of the work you do will certainly impact your prescribed training. What we prescribe will change based on a relatively high number of factors, so just know that your training will go in the right direction no matter which way you decide to go.
Checking back in. What I did was drop from the recommended 6 workouts a week to 3, leaving room for outdoor rides to fall where they may. I prescribed no hard rides outdoor so they will all fall on indoor trainer. My logic is that TR will respond to what I do outdoor and factor that into my indoor sessions? Is this better than ending up with seemingly hard but unstructured outdoor efforts that result in nothing but endurance indoor? I did my first over under in a long time (Mills) on Friday and failed coming off the “over” peaks into the down slope on all but the three first intervals. 1. I was reminded what structured overload is like. 2. I was reminded why outdoor will never be the same from a stimulus perspective.
I think setting up the way you are the system and your body are going to realize pretty quickly that you are trying to cheat it. May be able to keep up those hard rides and workouts for a week or couple weeks but that fatigue is going to catch up to you. Seems like it may have already gotten you with the over/unders. I always find those tough though.
I think you need to swap one of your outdoor group rides for a structured hard ride like they mentioned earlier to see better results.
Checking back in. I have left the all indoor plan with fewer days intact due to lack of time and the fact that we are now in the strange season in Ontario with freeze thaw cycles changing up rideability outside.
I had been looking at an FTP prediction growth from 252 to 256 and did the Haeckel threshold mixed intervals workout last night and used every last fiber of my being to get through the last interval (audible anguish level here) so the algorithm would seem to have my number pretty damn accurately.
FTP prediction after that was sorry son…….no FTP increase for you. So that bitter sweet feeling of no progression but also knowing that with it at its current level I got my ass kicked.
It basically means my FTP has only dropped over the past 2 years yet I have been working pretty hard and very consistently.
It all doesn’t really matter as I am only recreational and challenging myself to get fitter and stronger but for a data guy its pretty frustrating. I find it hard to comprehend that 2 years ago about now TR said I was 270 and now I sit at 252 with those 2 year weekly average of 400-600 per week of TSS. I could maybe see flat due to less structure. Not blaming TR, just trying to square all the work and attention to it and lack of progress and figure it out. Maybe its just old ass getting older.
I think as a data guy, you know the solution. You may want to leverage the crap weather in the winter/spring to build fitness using 3 hard indoor rides and any outside rides easy. But make sure they actually are easy. Might be too late for this year, but if you can get 8 weeks in you will be much fitter then add back in the outdoor group hard rides.
You just need to decide what you want to prioritize. Unfortunately lots of hard, unstructured rides aren’t going to give you the gradual progressive overload to increase your FTP. The fact that you have the availability to do all these fun outdoor group rides is fantastic (count me envious), they just aren’t as beneficial from a FTP increase perspective.
Personally, I enjoy having my week structured like:
(2) - 90 minute intervals
(1) - 120 minute Z2
(1) - 180+ minute Z2 on trainer or medium intensity outdoor ride. Moving from flat Texas to mountainous Washington, my outdoor rides usually average Z2, but are often also a big blend of Z1-4 between the hills and coasting. I know this is not ideal but I find the trade off enjoyment worthwhile. Also, since I only do 2 intensity rides, vs the often suggested 3, that adds some balance.
^ this or similar has done well in growing my FTP. More Z2 days could easily be added.
