I found this really helpful.
BTW, weren’t the older generation Stages power meters notorious for having lots of dropouts?
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I’ve been using Powermatch with my Snap and Quarq PM for 6 months without issue, it works great. I had some initial frustrations with the Powermatch setup, but once I got it dialed it’s been problem free.
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One thing I will add… I think this is a problem with the Kickr, not the power meter or power match. I use the Kickr with a Favero power meter. My wife uses the Kickr without a power meter (she just uses the power reading from the Kickr), and has the same problem. That should eliminate the power meter and power match as variables. I’ll be interested to hear how your experiment goes.
Other things I tried that didn’t have discernible impact: updating the Kickr firmware and performing a factory spindown on the Kickr.
We both run trainerroad on our phones (iOS) and connect via bluetooth. That is one variable I haven’t tested.
I read through and didn’t see a mention of what power meter you’re using for power match. If you’re using the favero assioma pedals (left pedal version), be aware that a recent firmware update caused the pedal to only report half the power output to your computer/phone (i.e. it didn’t double the left pedal’s power before sending it to your device).
If this is the case for you, you can open a support ticket with favero and they’ll send you a new firmware update that fixes the problem. This drove me insane when it first happened and I couldn’t figure out why my warmups were so hard.
As an aside, I too have had problems with the kickr snap power accuracy. With power match off, the kickr is continuously 20-40 watts harder than every other power meter I’ve used (favero pedals, stages crank arm, etc.).
I have another update I reset everything and restarted each device to get a good baseline.
I took the stages power meter off for the entire warm up. Wile the graph was perfect smooth using the power smoothing of the kickr I could feel the same tightening and easing up I felt yesterday. The wattage was definitely held above what was called for and then it would go way below what was called for. It was just like yesterday’s roller coaster that was using the power meter. It was really odd to see that the power numbers on the screen never changes when the effort was dramatically increasing and or decreasing.
The way I understand this process is that is trainer road software commanding the power levels or the kickr. If that is correct it seems the problem is with TR not with the kickr. Does that sound logical?
It sounds logical, but I don’t know enough about these technologies to draw any definitive conclusions. I think we can rule out the power meter and the power match function. That would leave the TR program and the Kickr as possible points of failure.
I think the best way to fully isolate the problem at this point is to run a workout in Wahoo’s app without TrainerRoad running at all. I don’t think Wahoo’s app attempts to control power levels, but if it is telling you that you are putting out 80 watts and it feels like 300, then I think we can conclude that the problem is with Wahoo / the Kickr.
Otherwise, it is most likely a problem with the interaction between TR and the Kickr. I may try this myself later today. If I still experience the issue I’ll also log a ticket with TR in case this is a bug with their software; having multiple cases may increase the visibility and priority level.
Have you tried eliminating TR altogether and just controling power with the wahoo app? I had weird stuff going on with my Snap and TR but it worked fine with just the app…TR said I have some kind of wifi interference going on in my house but I never figured it out.
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OK, I tried it with just the Wahoo app running and I experienced the same issue. At first, the power felt much higher than the read-out in the app, and then it dropped drastically. This happened immediately upon starting the workout in the app. This was without any external software controlling the power on the Kickr. Therefore, I am convinced that this is a problem with the Kickr Snap, and not anything to do with TrainerRoad.
For the record, I went on with the workout in Wahoo for about 5 minutes. Then I did a spin down in the Wahoo app, opened up TR, did a spin down in TR, and finally started my TR workout. I didn’t have any issues with power fluctuations after that. This really seems like a problem that happens upon start-up in the Kickr, but that ultimately goes away. Annoying, but not enough reason for me to get a new trainer (others may disagree).
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You have done the factory spindown, not just the standard spindown?
Yea, I’ve done both. It doesn’t seem to make a difference.
Wahoo support was no help?
Recently I have had a similar problem with the Kickr Snap and Powertap P1 pedals - the wattage is far too high in the warmup. Reading this thread, it seems to be common.
One trick that sometimes works: start the warmup for a few seconds, and then dump into a very easy gear (eg. the 28 cog). This somehow makes the trainer lock into the correct wattage.
Have you considered upgrading to direct drive? that was the only solution i could find…
I haven’t tried that yet, but now that I’m certain it’s a Wahoo problem, that’ll be my next step. Thanks.
Strange! Will give it a try.
**update from OP possible solution found **
Well I had the first actual erg mode workout since I got my snap today. The customer service person I have been dealing with had stopped returning emails and finally after a week or so I got an email from another rep. He suggested that I do the super double secret factory spin down. Here is a cut and paste from the email.
https://www.smartbiketrainers.com/advanced-spindown-calibration-wahoo-kickr-snap-4350
I don’t know why in the world someone would not have suggested this before.
I did that plus I did a calibration of my power meter and the snap from within the TR app.
This all apparently worked. I will see if it keeps working during tomorrow’s workout. I will pass along how it goes.
It’s a secret code! Who knew?
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That is what I had asked, if you did the factory spindown as opposed to the standard spindown.
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I had no idea this existed. This isn’t the regular spindown in the app. You have go through a hidden wall to find this double secret spin down. Nobody mentioned there were two different ways of doing it.