So, I’m in week 5 of SSBMV1, and my ramp test at the beginning of the plan estimated my FTP at 274w. I have been doing all my SS sessions and O/U workouts 5-10w higher than it calls for, and haven’t had any struggles completing the workouts. I’m wondering if my FTP was set too low, or maybe I’m just not being patient enough. On last nights workout I just said f-it and went hard on Geiger +1, and was 20-30w higher by the last set - I just kept upping the watts from the 1st to last set. here’s what it looked like:
Ya, at this point I don’t want to retest as you pointed out, II only have 2 workouts left before my rest week. In all likelihood, I won’t have this ‘problem’ in SSBMV2 - I suspect I picked up some easy fitness watts in my first few weeks of this plan. Further gains in fitness will probably be a little slower.
4x30min. Yikes! You gotta be on your mental ‘A’ game for that one. Good luck!
I went out and bought a smart trainer to replace my 25 year old Compu Trainer, told myself if I spent the money I sure as heck better be committed to using it.
I’ll be 63 next month. Been mountain biking for 35+ years, the last few years my riding has been sporadic, ride a couple days a week for a few of weeks and then not ride for 3 weeks.
I joined Trainer Road. I’ve never been on any kind of training program other than the seat of my pants where I’d go harder and longer, that was when I was much younger and racing. I did the 20 minute FTP ramp test and came in at 160. I was disappointed but this probably is a true number.
I started the SSB1 HV program and I’m at the end of week 4. I’ve had a couple of days where I just didn’t want to get on the bike, but I’ve done every workout and felt pretty good for the most part.
My fear is my FTP will skyrocket in the next phase and all of these future workouts will be so much harder, I won’t be able to finish without puking,.
Do I really want my FTP to drastically increase, that would be a hell yes! Wait, I think we better keep it within reason.
I wasn’t sure what plan to choose, but I’m able to put in the time. I’m able to ride during the middle of to the day, eat a little and than take a nap. Also, if I’m going to do this training, I’m going all in.
“All in” with lots of time on your hands doesn’t have to mean HV though. It could mean MV or even LV to provide your core workouts, then supplement with endurance rides and extended cooldowns which will build up your volume with less stress and fatigue than doing a 2 hour SS session. Worth listening to a few of the recent Kona podcasts, these are people who are absolutely at the top of their game and qualifying for the World Championships, and most (maybe even all) of them did it on Medium or even Low volume plans, but executed with a high degree of compliance and consistency over a period of years.
Especially at your age, it takes longer to build up the ability to handle volume, and it takes longer to recover from the hard workouts. I’m 44 (feels old enough!) and I burned myself out doing SSB HV earlier this year despite the fact that I’ve been training consistently for 20+ years and averaged >10 hours/week of triathlon training last year. I assumed that dropping the running and swimming and focusing on cycling would enable me to nail SSB HV, I got through SSB1 OK (though it was harder than expected), SSB2 absolutely nailed me and I bailed on it halfway through. Then did a couple of months of fairly unstructured training which basically was a polarised approach - was doing a couple of hard group rides each week, and riding mostly easy or endurance in between, occasional SS session when the legs felt good. Was enjoying it far more and getting better results, so I learnt the lesson and when I felt like doing structured training again I’ve kept the volume high (10-12 hours most weeks) but with less intensity than SSB HV. It’s a bit of a customised plan as I’m working in quite a bit of racing and hard group riding, but pretty much works out as a MV plan with additional endurance and easy riding to make up the extra hours.
This is the club I need… New to structured training, not new to riding/racing. 20 minute ramp gave me x FTP, workouts based off of that FTP, completed the first three workouts…Completely exhausted/over trained, irritable, ache in my core, stop training to recover, now completely scared to to do anything high intensity.
I get it, I am new to this. Currently on Medium Volume plan, switching to Low Volume, dropping my FTP by 20 and putting the training wheels back on. I am not giving up! Have the guts to suck at something!!
Sound a bit like me except I was late to riding and have never raced. I’d been cycling for 4 or 5 years when I discovered TR a few years ago. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve started SSBLV and found it wrecked me after the first week. Curiously until this thread I’d never even thought of dropping my FTP! I just thought it was me being a wuss. I now plough my own furrow doing mostly endurance and tempo work ie effectively dropping my FTP.
I’ve said it before and i’ll say it again, ramp test is good for people who have no idea what their FTP is. Reality is if you’ve been training for a while a and have experience pacing, 20min test will always be more accurate
I have a methodology for lowering intensity that I like. I personally still like to use the ramp test, even if it sets the bar a little high. I try to start every workout with the hope that I am going to nail it, but when I am struggling, I lower things, but I try to always stay in the tr training zone that the interval intends. For example, if the interval is pushing on the high side of sweet spot, and I am struggling, I will lower the intensity, but I try to NEVER leave sweet spot (or whatever zone the interval was intended for). I just have a slip of paper on my stand that shows me my power ranges for each zone that I refer to. I like the idea of at least staying in the zone that coach Chad intended.
I have done the 5m > 20m taking 5% off for years to calculate zones. Last summer I got a threshold lab test in Boulder(which was a ramp test) and then performed a “at home” ramp test to validate the lab data at elevation. 3 weeks before did the 20m test(on trainer): FTP 373w. Lab test: 330w! That is more than a whole zone off!
This year, due to that mess, starting zwifting on a dumb trainer. Find a race that will take about an hour, and race it full out for a more accurate FTP. Once CX season ended, took a few weeks off, started training again, did a FTP “race” and scored 315w, which seems right in line. That is how I plan on testing from now on.
I think I suffer from this… increased from 245 to 255, mid SPB-LV, after taking also 2 weeks off due to saddle sore issues. Was pretty happy, of course, but the first ride after the increase, Washington +4 was brutal and couldn’t finish the intervals. So I attempted Ainslie +1 (similar interval power and length as the ones I have failed on Washington +4) and completed it. Today I did Fish -2 at 97% and completed it, overachieving the target here and there. So feeling pretty stoked. But the memory of Washington +4 lingers…
2 Questions for you:
If I set the next few rides at 97%-98% and complete them, should I recalibrate my FTP to 0.97 * 255?
In general, if I were to take the 20 min ramp test, and were to stick and complete the prescribed power output for those 20 mins, would that mean that my Ramp Test FTP was indeed correct? (@mcneese.chad?)
Thanks, appreciate the responses, and happy to have found this thread!
I know I’m replying to a year old post, but I have to.
I’m on the end of 3rd week of SPB. Based on Galena+2(actual prescription is +1, but I skipped thursday workout so intentionally choose +2 ver) result, I drop my ftp from 217 to 205.
Average power of 2nd/3rd interval was 209 so taking 0.95 on that value gives me 199. TP acknowledged me this 199 value first and it makes me think a lot. Mediocre results of VO2max workout, way too much stress/hyperbreathing on overunder(I out-performed one of OU workout using ftp of 217, but I just want to leave that experience as exception), feeling of under recover, etc. Then crawling over the forum and confronted this post. I feel like this galena+2 workout enlightened me. I can fairly easily adjust my FTP down based on my performance in hard workouts, so dropped mine 217 to 205. 205W comes from my gut. wild guessing with my experiences on workouts.
I didn’t read all the posts belong to this thread, but I think I’m also the one who over-estimated ftp with ramp test. FTP adjustment is so simple, but it was such a hard decision for one whose experience on structured training is just about a half a year. Thank you @trpnhntr for sharing your opinion.
The hard part with FTP for me is that it doesnt really tax my aerobic system to the max, my legs give out way before my heartrate can get up to the higher levels. In January i tested at 294 using the ramp test, and also did a Zwift race around the same time where i averaged 291 for 20 mins and 260 for the hour, which was about as hard as i could go. But my max heart rate was only 160bpm. My actual max HR is more around the 185 mark which I can hit with running during a very intense session.
I set my ftp to 280 for my high vol sprint tri training plan as I knew i wouldnt cope with it at 294 and ive hit most workouts fine up until the last week where ive gone into a few sessions fatigued, so ive toned them done slightly where needed. Again, my heart rate is mid-high 150’s on the later longer intervals but my legs are screaming to stop. Luckily im good at hurting.
How do i get to use that additional 20bpm that I cant seem to reach without leg failure within minutes? It feels like I have untapped cycling power which I cant utilise. .
This is a quick reply but you are able to hit higher HR rates running because you are using more musculature. Cycling only uses the legs to produce the power so you’re never going to see that max HR unless it is at the end of a race and you sprint after being on the rivit for a few minutes. The other thing is, and this has been said on the podcast before, is that you won’t hit your highest HR in the test.
I understand the differences in musculature activation between the two and that hitting true max hr is very difficult in either sports. However elite athletes, triathletes for example, have no issues in raising their hr up near max when running or cycling etc. Pure cyclists certainly use their whole cardiac range.
So I suppose my question is, as you develop better leg strength and adapt physiologically to improve oxygen consumption / energy creation, can you expect your max heart rates in cycling to get closer to what you see with your running? Assuming the stronger you are at cycling the higher a % of your max oxygen you can make use of, where currently im making use of a fairly low % of my aerobic capability simply because my leg strength is too low, my heart/lungs could clearly provide them with a lot more additional oxygen to be used.
Is it that im simply lacking those ‘base’ adaptations from longer Z2/sweetspot riding over a few years (which I havent done) and should concentrate on this area to make better use of my relatively untrained power?
This is interesting, because the highest heart rates I see are on the ramp test. Granted, I don’t race, so I’ll never know about pushing myself to the limits for minutes and then sprinting. But the highest heart rate I’ve seen on any of my runs is 17 bpm lower than the highest I’ve seen on a ramp test. Maybe I just haven’t pushed as hard as I can running? That max running heart was recorded at a “tempo” pace (in my current mediocre running condition) on a long uphill trail segment.
Although I feel that I have a pretty decent “engine”, I have this sense that my limiter on the ramp tests is first my heart/lungs and not my legs. I’m not sure if there is any way to evaluate that from the data.
As an aside, on my last ramp a week ago coming off of SSBLV2 I deliberately left some watts on the table to limit my increase to only 2%. I somewhat had this thread in mind before I started the test, and since I’m really only doing TR to stay in shape and not to prep for any particular events, I’d prefer not make the training too difficult. I’m plenty happy with the ftp and fitness gains that I’ve made to date.
Interesting comment but I’m not sure that’s the case for elites either. My understanding is at the elite level they are not hitting the same HR in a sustained effort like a ramp test when riding vs running. I could be wrong about that but I believe that is the case. Even Jonathan, Nate, Pete, and Chad are not hitting peak HR when doing the ramp test and then have been training for years hard.
