General Build and Over/Unders

Just getting into the first week of General Build Mid volume (after finishing both SS mid) and hit (failed) Carpathian Peak pretty hard. For me, 12min o/u feel a bit too far. Especially considering the next week is Fang Mountain+1 which is 9min intervals (though overs are at 110% compared to 105%). I’ve decided to swap stuff around to Avalanche Spire which is looks almost like the same workout but is broken up into 6 min intervals then also swapped out the regular Fang Mountain for the next week. This feels like a much more reasonable progression and doesn’t change the overall TSS for the week all that much.

Anyone else have similar feelings? Or why do I suck so bad a O/Us!! :wink:

Also in 1st week GB and did Carpathian Peak this morning. It wasn’t a walk in the park, but certainly doable.

So sorry, don’t have similar feelings. But everyone is different

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Over under’s suck, and always will suck for everyone. If they didn’t suck they wouldn’t be doing their job. The longer the burn the better.


Welcome to the club! Pull up a chair and let’s talk. I’m a veteran (and club president) at sucking at O/U so listen to everything I have to say and don’t question me!! :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

But before we begin…what EXACTLY do you find hard about O/Us? :man_shrugging:


OK then Mr President, I’m all ears!

What exactly is so tough… not really sure yet. I dont know if it is the over and underness (IE the change in effort) or simply just riding at >10 mins at threshold. Current theory is that the length is what kills me. I’m doing Avalanche Spire tomorrow as a makeup and we’ll see how that goes. If I can get through that, I’ll feel better about the whole thing and just gradually add time to each effort.

Take a 10s backspin during the under if it’s killing you too much, then get back into it. Them being long is part of the ‘fun’.


We all hate them, it’s the unders that suck the most because they are at an intensity that doesn’t allow the lactic load to dissipate quickly. Which is why you don’t feel the relief you have mentally prepared yourself for.

Problem is that they are super beneficial.

It’s the kind of work out where your mind wants you stop stop before your body does


There is definitely an aspect of mental toughness that is absent right now. 10 sec backpedals is something I do regularly, but they quickly extend into 15 and 20 seconds. We’ll see how the shorter intervals go this week and next and see if I can more gradually get there.

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For sure! Mental game is not where I need it to be. That one voice (back off! You need to back off!) is having too much influence right now…

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Yep, get the loud music on in the head phones. Stick a grin on your face like you are loving life and tell that mental baggage to FRO. Works for me (mostly) :wink:


I was dreading this workout after a 15 watt increase on sunday i did this workout today and it felt ok ( tough but doable) i guess i am ok at O/U :wink:


As this is my second year with TrainerRoad… my calendar for the next 3 months… nothing but Over Under’s!

Yip, the science is in and I have the Music ready for each session moving forward as I dial up the Duration and Intensity as I adapt!

Science is fun! Over Unders are Hell on Earth… but now we get to fight back!


I have the O/U in GBLV, granted I do less TR workouts in the week than in MV but I like to think I make up for those in the gym hitting my legs two times a week :wink:

I don’t mind them actually I can get through them pretty well, what is your cadence for these type of workouts? I believe 85 is the minimum guidance but above 95 is preferred.

I did notice that the legs feel better with a higher cadence, helping to flush out the lactate.
Perhaps raising your cadence could help you with these workouts.

If this is the case then it’s probably a matter of muscular endurance, i.e. holding that high power for long periods of time. Sh!t ton of progressively longer SS and Threshold workouts should make you strong enough to handle those big O/U sessions.

FWIW, I suffer the other O/U limiter – lactate. My clearance ability is definitely not world class, so hitting power and duration is ok, but when the lactate flood gate opens going from O to U…I like to pretend it’s extra lactate pouring from my eyeballs and not tears of excruciating pain. The fix for this requires a lot more work and a lot more time than the former muscular endurance limiter (lots of Z2/Endurance and Z4/Threshold).

I’m in my last week of SusPowerBuildHV. Doing Carp Peak +3 today…again…3x20min O/U…
I’ll let you know how it goes…after they release me from the hospital. :skull_and_crossbones:

(bonus: all 3 of the guys – Chad, Nate, and Jonathan – said on a recent podcast that they all suffer a lot doing O/U…and even pro rider Alex Dowsett, who once held the Hour Record, has said he can rarely finish a 2x20min O/U session. We are in good company!)


Started build today also with Carpathian and found it easier than i thought. Had last 12 min interval at +4 but i didnt see a big improvement after SSB2 which i was disappointed with but it appears i dont go too well after a rest week so i done some SS stuff for a week after my rest week and then into build and it seems to have made a big difference.

maybe you lack sleep and not enough carbs, i failed my fang mountain after 3rd set being forced to lower to 95% next 2 and last to 92%, but on 3rd week after eating eggs/meat after trainings and all week lots of rice with vegetables, and sometimes sleep 1-3hours middle of day, manage to cope trainings pretty well and increased to +10 watts from 3rd week and still have juneo -2 tomorrow , will get 656 tss hopefully +30 more than prescribed. Extra endurance training from sustained power build high volume, might help hold on longer to high efforts.

I’m of the belief that working on o/u for a time period will reap huge benefits. The body will adapt to whatever stimulus you give it. If you work just on o/u, but add 2-5 ftp points the next time you successfully complete it, you’ll build up a resistance to it and will be a stronger rider overall

Hi. On the road I’m doing 3x12 minute under-overs (2mins@95%, 2mins@105%) with 4 mins rest.

Should I be looking to extend the intervals length to 20mins or increase the time spent at 105% or even bump up the power a little to progress on these.

I always look to increase watts on my SS intervals once I can do 60mins+ on the road. But there’s not much info on under-overs.

Increase duration.
O/Us are very specific in their purpose — load with lactate @>FTP, clear the lactate @<FTP, repeat. Doing more @>FTP will degrade the specificity of the O/U workout. They are a different animal than a SS or straight Threshold interval session.

I actually do like these sessions after SSB phase 4x20min flat SS sessions :stuck_out_tongue:
It’s variety that makes O/Us more interesting and engaging. Sure, current 1st week is really hard, had to lower intensity to 90-95% during last set of Fang Mountain +3 but still enjoyed it.

Have to say though, after couple months of SS sessions, those higher intensity workouts are hitting like ton of bricks…