Fueling workouts (can't eat enough) help?

Nutrition
21

I enjoyed your post and all of the follow-up comments about not counting calories - a lot of valid points there for sure!

All that said - you’re lucky you have a comparatively low FTP - I’m not doing double workouts and I’m still burning 1800-2000 calories a day on the high volume high intensity days. Meaning when I did Tallac +4 to wrap up Week 7 of General Build High Volume I had the following expenditure:

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This put my calories for that day at the following:

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As you can see - I’m not following the advice of some of the other posters in this thread and am counting calories and macros. This is because it became habit when I was cutting weight earlier and I find it helps keep me healthy.

So…if you’re still interested in how to get that much food down without feeling like a slob and haven’t changed course based on earlier posts lmk and I’ll get into the details

2 Likes
22

Do it!

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I’m open to any and all opinions. i tend to be a person that likes to hear all sides of a subject and then cherry pick little bits here and there. i also believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle of every spectrum. id love to see the full picture of how people attack this issue and make a decision based on all the available info

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Moderation in all things, not a bad approach

Essentially I tackle these heavy calorie days with a few key components in mind:

  • Eat early and eat often
  • Distribute your protein timing
  • Timed carb intake

First up, eat early and eat often. On a weekday when I want to target approximately 4,000 calories I start with a decent sized breakfast of 500-600 calories and then make sure to eat another 300 or so as a snack before lunch. I then have another 500-600 for my lunch which I follow up with at least 400-500 as snacks before an early evening ride time. I then consume about 600 more during the two hours on the bike (sometimes if I’m doing something like English +5 I’ll include a sweet potato during the endurance portion at the end when I know the intensity is low enough that my stomach can take it). This leaves me with around 1000-1500 to eat after the ride, which I try to spread out before bed

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Distributing protein is important for me since if I over-eat protein and focus it only during the three ‘meals’ I feel ravenous the rest of the day - it helps keep me feeling full and keeps the engine moving all day long. This means those snacks I mention above all include some amount of protein.

Timing the carbs was also an important lesson for me to learn because I’m doing relatively low carbs right now (40% fat really cuts into your carb intake) but I just can’t get through the harder workouts if I don’t hit the sweeter carbs a few hours before the ride. I was able to get away with being lazier on this when I was in base, but I really suffer in build if I don’t fuel the ride with carbs.

Before I get into the specific foods I eat - a few caveats. I have a relatively strong stomach and find the timing of the food is the main item that messes me up (if I eat heavily right before bed I won’t sleep well and get acid reflux) but otherwise I’m relatively lucky in that I can eat a lot and feel good. I also know what I like, am a capable cook, and am pretty happy to eat the same things over and over again - if you require variety then you’ll have to do more substitutions than I do.

I try to stick to whole foods whenever possible, and most everything is homemade (with a few exceptions) but you can (for some extra money) buy all of these things in the prepared foods section of a grocery store

Breakfast foods

  • Whole milk plain greek yogurt (good source of both fat and protein)
  • Cereal - I either have homemade granola or a store bought higher sugar cereal mixed with cheerios

Lunch foods

  • Pork tenderloin or white meat poultry (either chicken or turkey)
  • Roasted beets
  • Kale or collard greens

Dinner foods

  • Salads (whatever lettuce you prefer) with olive oil and balsamic vinegar as dressing. Some cashews for crunch and extra calories
  • Tuna or other fish (can do canned or cook fresh)
  • Enlightened ice cream (my brand of choice - has roughly the same caloric breakdown as a recovery shake) - this is one of my ‘treat’ foods since I have a sweet tooth

Snack foods

  • Avocados - these have been key for me lately - ~200 calories each, filling, delicious
  • Hard cooked eggs - another good source of protein and fat that helps fill me up between meals
  • Nuts 'n more high protein nut butters - another treat food - these are very calorie dense and I’ll grab a spoonful of these whenever I’m feeling a bit empty to top up…this is the only thing on the list I have to be careful with as I can actually go over my calorie totals if I go hard on them
  • Sweet potatoes

Bike foods

  • SiS Gels - only on high intensity workouts, never use them for anything else
  • Clif Bars - for longer duration intervals where I haven’t gotten carbs in ahead of time
  • Sweet potatoes - for low intensity workouts where I want the carbs

I think the key for me is that my meals add up to around my non-riding calorie goals for the day and then the snacks and treats can supplement me up another 1000-2000 pretty easily. This lets me have the same basic meals on non-ride, or lower volume, days. I can simply up my serving size of breakfast, double up on my dinner salad, and add in my snack foods and ride foods at the appropriate levels.

The other thing I’d mention is that during base I would often go hungry to maintain my calorie goals, but as soon as I progress into build that becomes impossible. I track my food and try to maintain discipline between eating because I’m bored and eating because I’m hungry - but if I’m feeling empty at the end of the day I’ll have some of those nut butters even if I’m over my calorie target. At some point you have to listen to your body and not your calorie counts

7 Likes
25

since i have started bace this year (also when i started 2 a days) i get up and do lazy mountain -1 fasted. then right after i do a grass fed whey recovery shake, ONNIT brand, just for the sake of laying the story out. then take a shower and get dressed. ill pull a double espresso and make 2 slices of sourdough toast with a big dollop of peanut butter and jam on each slice and eat that before im off to work. i usually take a banana and a couple clementines for a, 9 am or so, mid morning snack. then for lunch i go home and usually do some sort of sweet potato (one whole) and veg hash. ill scramble 3 or 4 eggs and put all that in a couple burrito wraps. everything cooked in grass fed butter, usually add an avocado, to get some good fats in. i let that digest all afternoon and ride when i get home at 3. after my ride im again on the recovery shake, shower and get dressed. head over to my girlfriends place where we make something for dinner. this is usually where i get my red meat in. some nights steak and veg. some nights cuban garlic chicken black beans and rice. taco nights. and some nights we say eff it and grab KFC or chipotle haha.

one thing im hearing you say is on the bike nutrition which is something i never do for whatever reason. i guess its just years of figuring out how to cut cal and lose weight. but now im never more than about 10lbs heavier than my racing weight (158-160) and for the last couple seasons that melts right off after the seasons sweet spot work. maybe i would have more productive workouts and stay out in front of my cal. deficit if i through in some cal. on the bike. i use hammer drink mix during races but haven’t really thought about it during workouts.

my snack game is another spot were i see i could sneak in some good food. again with the years of convincing myself to eat less and ride more I’ve kind of wrote off snacking. when i started cycling in 2012 i was coming off a knee surgery and had partied my way up to 210lbs. it took years to shave that down to the 150s so i guess im just stuck in that rut. im not the chubby ex moto guy any more and i need to break those habits is what im finding out

26

I’d strongly recommend you shrink your meal calories and increase your snack calories. If you’re trying to get 4k calories in just a handful of sittings you will really struggle.

Some other snacks I really rely on are whole milk greek yogurt with some fresh fruit mixed in (350 calories) or a bowl of oatmeal with a banana and some chocolate protein powder mixed in (300 to 350 calories).

That oatmeal mix makes a great fast post ride with a solid carb protein blend that’s better for you than the recovery shake

27

Yoghurt + oats + honey is another good variation here.

The world strongest man competitor who I linked to up-thread seems to have a spoonful of peanut butter with most meals. It’s incredibly energy dense stuff.

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Sure would. Jack of all trades, master of none! :rofl:

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Everyone is different in how they fuel these workouts - for me it really helps get through the high intensity work of build and specialization and (sometimes) helps with the boredom of sweet spot work. I would consider adding in the same fuel that you use during races at least in the specialization phase to train your body to digest similar to race conditions. As you move up categories you race longer and longer times (my upcoming A event includes a 95 mile road race - so at least 3.5 hours on the bike) and as I get closer to it I will do even my high intensity workouts fueled as I would a race so that I can refamiliarize myself how it feels to go all out while I have a chew or a gel in my stomach or mouth (or sometimes even half a bar)

I do mix in fasted rides during my recovery weeks but don’t really mess around with it otherwise due to the duration and intensity

30

@trpnhntr you’re the man. lots of good insight.

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Then doing two bike-only workouts in one day would make one a master bike rider. :metal:

32

I had this problem last year when training for an Ironman. I admit it’s not easy. When you look at a lunchtime sandwich and it proudly says “500cals” and you realise that it doesn’t even cover the run you’re about to do.
I was doing 12 hours a week and burning through 9,000 - 10,000 calories on training (as per Garmin). My coach put it in terms for me as i just need to eat 5 meals a day, not 3. I would eat a ton of porridge oats with seeds and honey and nut butter. Lots of bananas. Energy bars while commuting home to do another 1000 cal bike workout.

My wife used to complain that I was costing a bloody fortune with all the food i was eating. It just became the new normal to me.

I’m 6’1" @ 75Kg if that helps.

+1 for “The Endurance Diet”

4 Likes
33

@Levi_gaswint

I may have missed it but you don’t appear to say whether you are monitoring your weight and if it is decreasing or not? That would be my first question :slight_smile:

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I have seen a variation of this in the past by a “Strongman Swimmer”

I image that I look nothing but tiny & skinny to them.

1 Like
35

I don’t have that issue at the moment to the same extent (pre-season), but during build/spec I go through a lot of food.

Also my colleagues are regularly commenting about my portion sizes during lunch. :blush:

I have found that the increase in money taken to the grocery store is offset by a decrease in money spent at bars because i’m on my couch tired from the workouts :smile:

I haven’t seen it mentioned above, but a nice shake of whatever nut/regular milk, fruit and added date or nut butter goes a long way and is easily digestible. There’s tons of recipes on the web.

Oh yeah!

36

I still think one always trumps two.

I don’t want to be the guy who always has the last word :wink:, and I am also conscious of the fact we are deviating from the OP, but I feel that you’re giving out bad advice. Any coach worth his or her salt would always prescribe 1 ride a day over 2, unless your target event/s consist of multiple rides in one day i.e. a track rider.

If you’ve got 3 hours in a day to train then you’re going to see a greater benefit training continuously for 3 hours over splitting it into 1 hour in the morning and 2 in the evening. The same applies to all durations.

Scheduling in 1 hour every morning for “recovery” will not make you a faster cyclist. If you wake up feeling a bit sore from the previous day’s workout then by all means jump on the bike and spin the legs for 30-40 mins, but don’t schedule it in.

If you’ve got work/family commitments and can only fit in a short workout in the morning and one in the evening then yes, it’s better doing both than just one. Are you going to see more gains than the person doing a longer ride each day, no. But you’ll see more gains than the guy/gal doing just one short session a day.

That’s my two cents on the whole matter. Have a great Christmas! :grinning::+1:

37

The OP (and myself) are not splitting workouts, we are doing two distinctly different sessions.

Only one way to find out! Besides providing scientific evidence, that is.