"Fueling the work" without stuffing my face

So I know they’ve talked on the podcast a lot about fueling the work and not dieting on the bike. And a recent podcast hit home with me when @ambermalika talked about a rider who was coming back from injury and would eat a ton, then train a ton, then eat a ton, and so on. And it got me thinking. I’d love to just go max watts this base/build season and not care about the weight gain. But I used to be obese and can wager I could give @Nate_Pearson a run for his money on eating. Like 6000-7000 calories a day is nothing. I just finished a SS workout with around 1200kj burned. My post workout drink was 2 scoops of protein (240 cal), 1 cup of whole milk (150 cal) and 60g of carbs (240 cal). I was still hungry so ate a bowl full of Cheez-its (~700 cal by weight). And I’m still hungry (going to start cooking dinner soon). This is on top of the 100g of carbs I took in on the bike over 1.5 hours. So I’ve fueled the work and then some. So here’s my question.

What surplus of calories should I be shooting for? I’m not bulking in the sense that I’m not trying to put on mass. I don’t mind the weight gain if I gain power and get stronger. But I have to rein in the eating or I will easily gain a ton of fat, I’ve done it in the past. So similar to losing weight with a deficit and going slow, should I track calories and shoot for a set surplus? I can’t just free feed unfortunately.

I hope this isn’t a topic that’s been covered. I tried searching but there weren’t any threads I thought it could fit in. @mcneese.chad if you feel like it can fit into a different thread, that’s cool.

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First, I would look at the quality of the calories you are consuming. Cheese it’s are basically nutrient free calories, so I can see them leaving you still hungry after. Cut out as much non-real food as you can, and focus on eating more rounded meals - carbs, fats, and protein together.

After the above, you could track calories and weight to see what you really need. Unless you are doing a bunch of strength work and looking to bulk up, I wouldn’t necessarily target eating excess calories.

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But they taste so good! Lol, I know I should just stop buying them and not give myself the option. I used to kill a pint of Ben n Jerry’s every night after dinner so I’ve made progress.

And that’s where my question really lies. I’m not trying to lose or gain weight specifically. I just want to get stronger on the bike. And at the same time, I want to fuel the training effectively. So because I know my eating can get out of hand, I kind of have to treat my eating like a diet to make sure I don’t overeat. Nutrient dense foods I know are the way to go, but I think I’ll still need to limit myself.

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One suggestion for being able to easily add veggies: roast a large pan on Sunday, and then you can just add them into dishes.

Last weekend I did a large amount of broccoli, 1 eggplant, and 2 zucchini’s. Roasted with just some olive, then added cherrie tomatoes, so spicy pasta sauce that has zero added sugar, some shredded vegan cheese (I’m lactose intolerant) and herbs. Roasted some more till everything got to the point I wanted.

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Yes. You have to live in San Francisco, and the delivery fee is “if you have to ask, forget it” :thinking::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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This is me. If I buy the junk (e.g., chips, pastries, cookies, etc.,) I have no portion control. I’ll eat the whole bag or whatever in one sitting. My solution is to not buy it. Oddly enough I can control the urge to buy when at the store.

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As long as I don’t go to the grocery store hungry.

I love veggies. But do get bored with pan fried broccoli every night. I need an air fryer. My go to, albeit very weird habit according to my wife, is eating a handful of raw spinach straight from the bag (apparently channeling my inner Popeye).

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Liquid calories are the least satiating. I don’t get all the talk about post-ride ‘recovery shakes’ or whatever… The ‘anabolic window’ is bro science. Just eat some regular food after your rides, its all good. And I don’t think you need a ton of protein post-ride, if you’re targeting recovery go for carbs. Protein is satiating, so to me thats fine if that is the intent of all the protein. If you’re worried about over-eating I would also look towards low-calorie dense foods: so lots of fruits and vegetables, lean meats, egg substitute, sugar-free drinks, etc.

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There are plenty of vegetables other than broccoli. Chicken / broccoli / rice is old-school thinking.

I sometimes eat spinach straight from the bag too. Lol. I guess its better than drinking milk straight from the container?

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It’s tricky trying to maintain weight and get stronger. Food wise It sounds like I eat as much as you. I usually eat a lot of pasta, rice or any grain/ starch. with lean meats and vegetables. I try to hit a certain amount of protein grams daily which helps me feel more full. Then I fill the rest with lots of Whole Foods and healthy fats like avocado and peanut butter, and some oils for cooking. For “recovery” I try to eat solid foods, it makes me feel more satiated than a liquid drink. Some of my gotos are: a couple cups of cereal, banana or any fruit, protein powder and milk, also peanut butter, bananas sandwich.

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It’s mainly the ease of cooking. I buy a big bag of florets. So it’s really easy to throw a couple handfuls in a pan with some olive oil and pan fry/steam it for 5 minutes. I have done brussel sprouts in the past as well, which aren’t too hard either but have to slice them. Asparagus should be pretty easy. Any others that are quick?

Yeah, cheese it’s are the summary of the issue.

I’ve completely eliminated processed foods and am fully on the WFBP diet and literally eat as much as I want and the scale stays the same. It feels magical, this was not the case before. All about quality.

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Don’t get me started on peanut butter. I’ll eat it straight from the jar. And PB&J sandwiches are a staple in my diet. I’ll also throw some in a smoothie with yogurt and frozen fruit.

I’m not even necessarily trying to maintain weight, just not gain too much. Which with my past eating habits I could gain 20 pounds in a month or two.

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I don’t think I’ve ever tried Marmite actually.

Never

I try to “listen to my body” but even that is hard especially with how active I am. My biggest help is kind of what they say on the TR podcast, make sure I’m eating before and during workouts usually 90g carbs an hour for rides longer than a hour. Then eat something with protein and carbs after my ride, somedays I line up lunch or even dinner as my “recovery meal”. My rest days I try to eat a little extra too and that seems to help me not binge eating a day later. Those are pretty much my personal anecdotes from trying to gain a little but not too much.

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Your ideas intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

How are you using your pre-roasted veggies in dishes? Don’t they go soggy in the fridge?

I sympathize. Strongly. I am not a svelte man. When I ran competitively I was 160 on on 5’11”. I’d be scrawny bu today’s standards for my distances. Generally I want to sit around 180. If I’m much less than this I have little reserve if I’m sick or other stresses pile up. And yet my mind tells me watts/kg is the magic. Well yes and no - for the kind of riding in my terrain I’d pick more watts over less weight any day that ends with y. So I’ve decided I’m going to pursue watts and let the kg be a secondary consideration

As an observation I see just as much body dysmorphia behaviours in cycling as I do in other sports (oh can I get in the extra small skin suit this year) - I think we are less obvious about it but it’s there.

The biggest struggle for me is adequate lean protein. At 58 And doing primarily endurance sport the recommendations are now 1.2 (by most) to 2.0 g/kg lbm (fewer but gaining support) and that is a real challenge to meet. My Lbm is say 70 kg so that means a minimum of 90 g to as high as 140 g of protein per day. For me that’s work and I don’t get there without supplementing

I suspect for most of us we likely under protein supply our training - and that’s different than not fueling the work

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I mix them with rice and reheat in the microwave, or dice them and use them in omelettes. The trick is to slightly under roast the veggies so they are crisper than if you were going to immediately eat them. Also, since I’m not using them as a side dish, but mixed in with other foods, a little “soggy” or not crisp, doesn’t matter.

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This. Just get rid of the junk food at home, keep a lot of “real food” (as Michael Pollan calls it) at home, and easy as much as you want for a month. It’s not easy, but it’s simple, and when I’ve done it I’ve lost 7% of my body weight in a month (only 10 pounds, but it was a really clear shift).

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