Sorry I should have been more clean ramp has given me anywhere from 270-303 depending on how bad I failed at it. 270 was the most recent I tested the 20 min at 309 a day later and completed SSBMV1 and 2 and im now into Sustained power mid. I have used the 20 minute test and results in the crit plan and short power build. Its probably mental or just something wrong with me LOL
This hit home. I’ve been stuck at an FTP of 224-226 since September, although overall strength and sustained power are better. Did another ramp test on Tuesday on the heels of MV General Build (preceeded by MV Sweet Spot Base). Same FTP results.
I’m also 47 and maybe MV plans are too much for me. I need to try something different, so I’m going back to base training but this time at LV, adding endurance rides on Wednesdays and Sundays. Perhaps my legs will respond to a little less volume and more rest. I hope.
Can you expand on that? Don’t take anything for granted if you’re not getting results you expect. It’s those sneaky variables that can get you.
For me, at least, the ramp test is as much a measure of my willingness to hurt as it is of the power I put out under a given level of hurting. For me the “gold standard” for whether or not I’m training at the right levels is a workout like Lamarck, which is 4x10 minutes right at FTP, with 2 minute breaks.
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well, I don’t eat very much processed foods. Mostly plant based. I don’t eat a high carb diet, but I try and increase my carbs for hard rides or the ramp test
Not that you need more options, but you could try this one too.
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I think this question nails it. I think if you get a significantly higher result on the standard 20 minute test (relative to your performance on a ramp test) and you use that set your ftp/zones, then the subsequent vo2 workouts are more likely going to be out of reach but ftp/ss will be on target. This could be a recipe for general fatigue due to overreaching on those intensive workouts as they might be out of reach.
On the flip side if you use the lower ramp test ftp to set your ftp/zones then the subsequent vo2 workouts will be more achievable and whilst your ftp/ss workouts might be a touch too easy you can ride on feel and simply use the targets as a baseline target. I think this approach makes it more likely you we’ll be able to train consistently without risk of overtraining and overreaching.
No science to back this up it’s just a theory I have and the approach I’m taking. My 20 minutes would likely put me at 290 but my ramp test pegged me at 258. My 20 minute ftp is a high percentage of my vo2 max.
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I think another nice thing about using the Empirical Cycling/Kolie Moore test is that it also measures TTE, so you can get a more objective measure of how your ability to maintain FTP (aka power at MLSS) over a longer time. Increasing TTE can have a dramatic effect on on-road performance even if power at MLSS remains the same.
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I don’t know about anyone else but I’ve found it difficult to do a lot of lifting in addition to a MV plan. I wasn’t making a lot of progress either when I first started using TR last year. At the time I was putting more emphasis on lifting. Since then I’ve reduced my lifting to 1 or 2 days a week and I’ve seen much bigger gains in my FTP without a drop in overall strength. In addition to my lifting day(s) I’m also rowing 2200-2400m (10min) before most of my trainer rides. My lifting consists of circuit based workouts with 8-13 exercises that take me 45min-1hr-ish.
With that said I’m also in the camp of starting to not use ramp tests anymore. VO2Max workouts with longer intervals have become my decision for increasing FTP manually. If I’m consistently finishing workouts that have VO2Max intervals longer than 90s without struggling by the end then it’s time to bump my FTP. For example; last weekend I did Spanish Needle -3 and felt like maybe I’m getting close to ready for a bump. However, last night I did Baird +6, which has 90s intervals, and had to decrease the intensity on my last set of intervals after tasting some of my lunch. Guess I’m not ready for a bump yet. Not sure if this is a good way to go about it but it seems to be working for me so far.
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This wasn’t exactly my point, but likely true. What I was getting at is that such a significant difference highlights a potential weakness that needs to be addressed. In this case, I’d argue there’s a need to work on raising VO2 max power. It’d improve ramp test performance, and raise the aerobic ceiling for more FTP gains.
Ramp test FTP measure probably won’t fully capture this. But you’re getting stronger, so don’t get too obsessed with Ramp test FTP.
If you want to use a metric that captures this improvement, use the 20 min test, or maybe one of the Kolie Moore protocols.
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I like this approach
This is probably your issue.
Probably going to be difficult to improve with as much extra load you are carrying, especially when they are opposite adaptation pathways.
I’d wager if you dropped to 1 day of cross fit and replaced those 2 extra days with workouts, you’d see some watt gains.
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I had a somewhat similar experience and decided to try gen build. I gained as many watts on my FTP in the first four week block as I had in the prior 10 months. Mixing it up with some higher power efforts has seemed to help. Gen build is fun too.
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@Captain_Doughnutman… Curious - what do you define as a “VO2 max block”? I’m having some of the same challenges as the OP. Thx
Basically a ~2 week time-in-zone progressive plan, e.g. 30/30s --> 3min intervals.
Coach Chad has this detailed somewhere on the forum, and others have expounded upon it.
Please search for it, or ask around.
I should keep it bookmarked…but I don’t.
Coach Chad explains here:
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I Would think you probably should drop a cross fit day and work in rest or foam rolling. You are putting your body through a lot.
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Some of the plans have this progression of VO2Max built into them without only doing VO2Max workouts for the entire block. Sweet Spot Base MV II, which I just completed, progresses from 30s intervals to 3min ones. I haven’t looked but I would bet that some of the other base plans also have this built in.
