I did a ramp test two months ago…I completely disregarded the result to be honest because my number was below what I have been using and also completed a 20k TT , something like 280w I believe, when I’ve done a TT at 340w. I am much better at steady state, 20 min power test than a ramp test. My last power test was 352w. It might depend on how your training and for what even, for me I am training for a 40k, 56-58min TT.
After reading through this thread and comparing the findings to my personal experience, I’m led to believe that the ramp test will produce a higher FTP number for a rider with higher v02 capabilities.
When you surpass the point of threshold within the test, you begin to fatigue a different system (V02). Depending on your training and genetics, you might be more or less apt to holding that higher power for a longer/shorter period of time. If you can’t maintain V02 power for very long, you will fail the test much earlier than someone who can.
I don’t think the ramp test accurately determines threshold power for everyone. I would encourage folks to try the 8 and 20 minute tests to get to know your complete power profile better and adjust your workouts to your strengths and weaknesses.
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I used erg mode on a smart trainer for the ramp test. Watching the live ramp test demo today it looks like the whole gang were not using erg mode. Has anyone done the ramp test on erg mode and non-erg mode and can you comment on your thoughts on which version you prefer?
Other than Johnathan who was on rollers, what makes you think they weren’t on ERG? To me it looked like most were.
I’m used to seeing ERG mode keeping the power dead on the target. They were fluctuating a bit. Also in the beginning they definitely weren’t on target. I didn’t see them change modes unless there was an edit? Also with Jon he had to manually stop the ramp test, if it were in ERG shouldn’t it have auto stopped?
Edit: Jon was on rollers duh, no erg.
- You maybe watching a Wahoo trainer with “ERG Mode Power Smoothing” enabled. If so, it is heavily smoothed data and not realistic.
- Many other trainers (and Wahoo with that bad setting off) will show regular power variation over and under the power target.
- That is not an ERG setting. It’s a setting of “pedal to play / pause” setting, that looks at cadence, not the trainer mode.
- Forgot to add, that the play/pause control is purely manual in Group Workouts. The cadence option is not enabled at this time.
- Based on recent comments, he’s using the Elite Nero rollers, that do offer an ERG mode, so it was a possibility.
- But you can see the trainer mode for the rollers was in Resistance and set at 50%.
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I have same belief as you. My personal experience also led to same. I wish TR has some sort of safety-bar feature for beginners who might over-estimate one’s ftp. Like take some sort of survey at the end or in the middle of the block, and for those who filtered, strongly recommend take other ftp test protocol. I know one should adjust his own training level based on his experience but novice might have higher chance to mindlessly follow the plan and then burnout.
I struggle with intervals above threshold, and figure that the ramp test, whatever it is measuring puts me in a good spot to barely complete these workouts. I’m scheduled to do a ramp test today, and I plan to do a Kolie Moore FTP test later this week for comparison.
Looks like I’m really bad at the ramp test. It put my FTP at 250, while the 20 minutes test I did immediately after put me at 290. I can handle 380w for a minute, but not after gradually increasing the intensity for several minutes prior while looking for the right gear and then adjusting to the new intensity.
Any tips to improve this?
On the 20 minute test did you correctly execute the 5 minute clearing block? That should be in resistance mode and be an all out effort to wipe out the anaerobic contribution.
For perspective this is worth the time and well written:
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Yes. Well, I did the 5 minutes at 322w as requested by the app.
Ah that could be it. There is a common misunderstanding; that you try and hit that target. Instead that part is suppose to be in resistance mode and you should go as hard as you can for 5 minutes, the 322w is an estimate based on your old FTP of the Minimum you should be able to do to help you get started on that segment. If that’s erg mode or you just “hit the mark” then if you have made gains, you will be undershooting and leave stuff in the tank that will taint your test. The Goal is to wipe out all of your Anaerobic ability; then when you do the longer test the only thing that can contribute to it is Aerobic ability.
In short form: you need to wipe out your matches so you can figure out what you can do with out any of them in the bank. That’s why if you can “Sprint” at the end of an FTP test; you under-tested. Most people think that means you went to slow in the 20 minute part (that can be the case if you went slow enough to actually recover). Usually it means that you didn’t clear out the anaerobic; and now you’re further skewing the results with a sprint on top of having probably used them to hold an incorrect threshold.
And yes I get dirty looks and people swear when they do it that way. It will get you a much more accurate result that reflect your true FTP that also assumes a TTE (time to exhaustion) of 1 hour.
The problem is that for the 20min test, you basically need to know what your ftp is before starting the test. If you underestimate it too much, you won’t get the training benefit, if you overestimate it you’ll bonk and get a too low value as well.
A sustained 20min max effort, is basically a vo2max test, much like a 5k run - if your legs just hurt and you’re not Rolling around on the Ground gasping for Air, you went too easy
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Agreed with that in spirit.
Without a coach to drive you; or a 1-hour race without drafting or a lot of experience it’s hard for a lot of people to dial it in. If you have done it a lot and haven’t crashed out burned out your training and are making gains then you probably test well.
For the thread in general and not the message I hit reply to…
For most newbies, the ramp test is probably good enough. Stop here if that’s you 
Meanwhile, for the freaks like us that read this thread and come to the forums, you can try this which I drag people through when I bring them to TR and convince them to use the software. Keep in mind they asked for this and I warn them I’m an ass. But I do it to myself after long layoffs or if I think I’ve lost my bead on FTP.
FTP is a bitch and so am I
Day 1 - RampTest - first best gauge; and I have them start with 150watt FTP that strings out the test a lot longer and is more likely to underestimate FTP. This trick will work for the MPP busters too. The slow steps burn off some of the overages.
Day 2 - Taku
Day 3 - * TOR - Power Profile test (custom workout you can get from me but I think it’s public)***
Day 4 - H.A. & A.C. Power Profile (The TR version is automated just like the 8/20 minute tests)
Take the average of those two test; and start a block of Sweet spot Mid Volume
On Day 7 and 14 as counted from forward from the ramp test; 20 minute FTP test. (I do it with them when I can so we can share the suck-age) ((Group workouts would be great for this)). A 1 hour TT is also good here if you can arrange one that will motivate you to compete.
At that point you’ll know what your FTP is; and training should be dialed in.
If you don’t have someone to work with on those, blow up on the 20 minute FTP or have no access to a TT; then link your Strava feed (everyone has one right)? to XertOnline and feed it your data via manual sync (free) compare it’s forecast to what your test results say. If you feed it the above mentioned 14 days it will usually overestimate your FTP by .05 wkg. Their algorithms are as accurate as WKO4/5 for most people and since they give the non-automated accounts for free; you might as well use it. If you never go hard then this option won’t work. You have to at least blow up on the 20 minute FTP once or twice or have some race effort data.
If you absolutely hate hard testing then stop by the MAF thread; there’s an aerobic way to get your FTP dialed in but it takes 3 weeks of riding long rides to figure out but we can fill you in over there without polluting this thread.
*** I noticed I broke the instructions in the TOR test; they are not timed correctly. I will try and fix that this week. TOR Test is used by some coaches for HPVC athletes to training for BattleMountain human power time trials; I made the TR version for my use.
I just listened to this podcast. Were they saying that people using the ramp test to determine FTP is based on old and/or flawed data? I will probably have to find the time to listen to it again, but wondering if someone can confirm what they were talking about.
I think I might be in the same position as this now. My last couple of ramp tests have left me flat but when I go to do the workouts at the given FTP I feel they’ve been pretty easy so have manually bumped myself up.
I thought maybe the issue before was because I was using virtual power but I’m finally on a power meter and its the same.
I’ve focused on sweetspot for so long now I can’t remember when my last VO2 workout was… I’ll have to get back on it. 
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hi, everyone!
yesterday, after 6 months training on my own, I decided to start with trainerroad
one of the main reasons leading me to subscribe to trainerroad was to accurately determine my current FTP and be able to improve through consistent and organized training, without exhausting myself or ending up overtraining.
during the last month or so I’ve been doing 20 minute’s FTP tests every week and the results have been really encouraging: every week I improved my score in 5 or 10 watts. the reason why I’ve repeated them so many times is that I realized that I wasn’t pacing myself correctly, since there’s always a last 3 or 4 minute power surge, which leads me to believe I have way more energy left. in other words: the improvements I have been seeing are due mainly to a better hability to pace myself. also, when doing 10 or 20 minute sweetspot intervals, I saw that my heart rate didn’t matched the 75%-85%bpm it should.
today I was eager to start my brand new training plan, do the Ramp Test and finally get a more accurate FTP score, without worrying in my bad pacing habilities. the results have been really dissapointing: last week, I did a 20 minute FTP test, scored 214 watts (which gives a 203 FTP, if multiplied by 0.95) and there was still a final 3 minutes power surge, which means I could have gone way deeper; today, I only reached a maximum of 240 watts in a minute (which, if multiplied by 0.75, gives a 180 FTP.) all the devices where working properly.
now I find myself with many weeks of structured training ahead and not a clue of what my current FTP is! honestly, and with all the due respect, I don’t think that the Ramp Test has shown my real numbers (another prove of it is that this sunday I did 3 sets of 20 minutes sweetspot intervals…at an average of 180 watts, and 145 bpm.). I’m a bad cyclist, that’s for shure…but not that bad! 
what should I do? carry on with the plan with my previous 203 ftp and encreasing it in 5 or 10%?
I really want to start the plan and stick to it, but I also want it to be set at the correct intensity and level in order to obtain the better results.
people have replied to your original post.
thanks!
i’m new and I don’t really know how this works!
Welcome to the forum!
In general, “double posting” with the same question in more than one place is not recommended. It creates fractured discussion and leads to more questions and confusion in some cases.
In this case, largely keep focused on the new post you created and the replies to it.
You can sure keep looking into other threads on the same topic. There are countless discussions about the Ramp Test here, compared to other tests, and the differences in performance. You can skim or use search on the forum to fine tune access to the large amount of existing discussion. Much of it is parallel to your experience, so there are answers within reach.
Here are my forum search instructions: