I started with TR in April 2020 on the ARION MAG ROLLERS. i did the ramp test and came out with a 240 FTP. My true source of power has been the FAVARO ASSIOMA POWER PEDALS. i have religiously used them and the rollers through all my workouts and testing.
2 week ago MID NOVEMBER i tested again doing the 20 MIN FTP TEST and coming away with a 332 FTP.
yesterday i purchased a WAHOO KICKR and i have just recently finished a ramp test to see if my FTP is the same. i tested at 307 with the new power match and the calibration done on both power sources.
A 25 watt decrease.
can this be right?
do i just split the difference?
what would be the better way to continue my training?
i love the rollers as they are engaging and i can sit on them for hours. im a steady state athlete that does ultras distance races and long sustained efforts.
you can’t compare different protocols using different equipment. You did not lose 25 watts. I am guessing that you are putting out the same amount its just being calculated a little differently. If you plan of using the kicker for training i would use the 307 FTP. Don’t make yourself crazy trying to figure out why its different. Its different because you changed equipment you are using. If you feel the 307 is wrong re-test but i am willing to bet you will get very close to the 307 mark again.
I have a Cyclops alu rollers and a Kickr. This autumn I’ve been training exclusively on the rollers and can 100% say I can produce higher numbers on the rollers than I can on the Kickr - using the same Quarq PM on both. Obviously not done a ramp test on the rollers but the difference is clear in SST and FTP intervals. Not entirely sure why but it is noticeable - might simply be psychological with the different engagement of the rollers.
The other thing is that you will know if your FTP is correct when you start the next part of the plan. If its too low then you’ll simply be walking through hard sessions and vica versa, if its too high then SST will be far too hard and anything over FTP is likely to be seriously difficult to get through. There is a growing view that most people have their indoor FTP set too high anyway, and find longer SST really hard to complete when in fact it really shouldn’t be too hard.
Hmm, interesting, I have rollers with a powertap wheel, and a Kickr. Obviously I can’t use the PowerTap wheel on the Kickr so I have two different separate power sources. I’ve noticed my FTP is slightly lower on the Kickr, but put it down to one meter either over or under reading. I hadn’t thought maybe they’re both accurate and the power I can put out is actually different! Maybe it’s similar to riding outside, where people can generally perform better?
I have no idea why but its interesting. It could be something to do with the lower inertia on the rollers compared to the trainer? I also tend to find I put out slightly better power while climbing, so maybe its the same going on here?
It’s not something I’m concerned about in training though as I plan to use the rollers pretty much exclusively this winter for all the tempo, SST, FTP and most vo2 sessions. I also tend to find I get less issues with lag in resistance changes on short vo2 intervals when I simply change gear to increase resistance on the rollers. Too many times I’ve had powermatch delay the change in resistance by so much it makes short 30/15 type intervals a waste of time. 4x20 yesterday was definitely easier to suffer through on rollers than it would have bee on the trainer as well!
Along with the basic inertia differences, if you used ERG mode, that can be a very different experience. Add to that the potential to do the ERG test in a range of gearing and you get some large potential for variation in feel compared to rollers.
Also, for some people (myself included), the ramp test pegs your FTP lower than a longer test. My numbers are very similar to yours (FTP of about 330) and the ramp test rarely gets above 307-310. I believe it’s due to the anaerobic contribution i.e. if yours is less, then you will undershoot. I know I can do all of my workouts with the FTP of about 330 and 307 would be way too easy, so that is what I use.
I do still use the ramp test because it is convenient and doesn’t trash you for the next day. For example, I just had about a month off after breaking my hand. I did the ramp test and got ~295, which tell me I’m about 10w off, which feels about right and I am using an FTP of about 320 for the time being until I get back at it.
i decided to change to the kicker to give it a try because of my increasing Power targets through the workouts. im doing the SSBMV at the moment and i do all my session very early in the morning (4am before work). hitting the numbers isn’t an issue on my ARION MAG ROLLERS as i change down the cassette to increase resistance. the KICKR is just quieter.
i have never used a smart trainer till this week and to be honest i didn’t like it. it was stagnant, boring and i lost interest in the workouts. i actually sold it last night after not even having it for a week.
i prefer the rollers they are mentaly engaging, knowing i can put down the numbers and hold it myself without external resistance is more rewarding. i have definitely gotten faster in the last 8 months using TR but the rollers is more like riding outdoors.
i have just completed a little upgrade/hack to my mag rollers, i switched out the original magnet to an industrial strength one, the existing wattage output on the mag rollers you could put out was 520W. with the hack i increased it to over 650W. i would never get it that high as i do more steady state over under intervals not so much VO2 max. but the hack worked well
For future reference, you could consider adding motion to a rigid trainer with a rocker plate. It can add varying levels of freedom and motion that can approach the feel of rollers.
This sounds interesting…I have 1" round neodymium magnets lying around, would adding these to my magnet bar and re-adjusting so the spacing was right achieve similar?
Well, I did the first step and grabbed a magnet to see what happened and was confused, but not surprised to find out that the aluminium roller isn’t magnetic! Which begs the question, what does the magnet bar actually do?!
The resistance isn’t caused by the roller being magnetic, but rather by the fact that it conducts electricity. By moving metal through a magnetic field you induce a current and then that current in turn creates an opposing magnetic field. So you are feeling the resistance between the field of the magnets and that induced field in the roller.
Yeah it should! By moving the roller through a stronger electric field it will create a larger opposing force. Similar to how it should get harder when you move the bar closer to the roller.
Update, I stuck extra magnets on the bar and did the following highly scientific test. Original resistance was, ‘some, but not much’ and certainly not as noticeable as the following. I considered removing the magnets, re-spacing the bar and re-testing but…didn’t
With extra magnets, in whatever gear I was in at 85 cadence (which was the controlled variable). Tyre warmed up and a willing (?) helper changing the resistance while I was riding.
As I said, not sure how it compares to before but there’s definitely a noticeable difference, this will possibly give me enough resistance at the higher levels to actually be able to sprint on Zwift races without spinning out! I’ve been having to go long for months because of this…
