First AI FTP seems low

I have done the first ten indoor rides and about four or five have been above zone 2 level, yet the FTP and zones for threshold and V02 seem very low. I did 45 minute Hobson today and my HR never got above 152 indoors at the TR FTP of 279. However, I have held 165 HR for more than 30 minutes in the first hour of my local group ride several times in the last few weeks.

  1. Is this a result of having done mostly zone 2 type rides indoors for my first few weeks on TR, during this time all the rides were at really low HR in my high volume base program. Will the Al adjust up as i do more intensity workouts in TR? How many workouts at SS and above are needed before the AI changes? Does workout duration matter for that to happen?

  2. Should I just do another ramp test?

  3. I think my physiology is slow twitch/diesel. I am probably comparatively strong in zone 2 and comparatively weak at threshold. Just a suspicion, based on years of racing a decade ago.

Should i just try and complete two TR workouts per week in SS, Threshold, and VO2 ranges by selecting intensities that are “stretch” or “breakthroughs” until the AI adjusts?

I guess I am also wondering if the AI number of 279 that I was given if for 60 full minutes? Frankly, I dont race anymore and I find that 15 or 20 minute efforts at threshold/vo2 mix repeat 2 or 3 times in a long group ride that I use for my bigbride of the week and as a pseudo race (as a non racer I just like progressing in the large group attrition)

Looking for any input on these issues.

Thanks in advance.

Are you using the same power meter indoors and out?

If you want to know your FTP for sure, just do a long form test rather than a ramp test and then you’ll know for sure.

Otherwise, just trust the TR system to do it’s job. It’s going to keep adjusting your levels for each type of workout as you go along. AFAICT, the actual FTP number is not as important overall.

I don’t think ai ftp uses your HR to decide anything. Are you using the same bike indoors and on the trainer? If not, there could be a calibration discrepancy. Aside from that just keep doing and rating workouts appropriately. The intensity should go up quickly enough.

This is the way to do it. Hobson is only Threshold 2.0, it shouldn’t be hard but once you start answering the post ride survey questions honestly adaptive training will ramp up pretty quickly (often so quickly that you wished you hadn’t said those workouts were easy)

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What I usually do in this situation is keep my base and easy rides as-written and bump up the % on the intensity days. More polarized, less z2 fatigue, able to really nail intervals. Do this for few weeks and then recheck.

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Thanks to all. I am using a Kickr indoors and my last few rides outdoors are without a power meter because I am trying shorter cranks (hip injury), in a sense, I am between power meters, lol.

I wonder if anyone has tips for what to do with the software when doing most rides outdoors? I do one really long group ride with 3 sections where I am in z4/V02 for 8-15 minutes each, sometimes getting dropped before things regroup. Assuming I have a power meter back on my bike soon, does the AI use the outdoor data for zones and progression levels inside? I know it may use HR from outdoors for TSS, but frankly, I have TP for that. What I want to figure out is how to get that data into the AI. My thinking is that I will use TR for two hard days a week and the rest of the time do outdoor riding when the weather is good. I can’t figure out how well the AI is dealing with a rider who is doing long group rides to exhaustion outdoors. Is there anything I should do to assist the AI in some way?

Hey there! Welcome to the TR community! :smiley:

I checked out your TR Calendar and I think I have an idea of what’s up here.

AI FTP Detection

It looks like you’ve generally done a good job staying consistent with your plan so far, but it does seem like you only did one 30-minute outdoor ride (without power) last week. That missing week of training probably impacted your most recent AI FTP Detection.

I also noticed that your outside rides don’t have power data (at least your recent rides). AI FTP Detection does take HRM data into account (if it’s available from the athlete) to make FTP Detections, but power is definitely the gold standard that will get you more accurate readings. The more power data AI FTP Detection gets, the more accurate it will be.

AI FTP Detection doesn’t need capacitive efforts or any particular workout to work well, but it does need power data to function as accurately as possible. Since it looks like a lot of your rides are missing power data, it may be a good idea to do a Ramp Test to see where you’re at.

And yes, the FTP value from AI FTP Detection is that grey area between the power you can sustain for a very long duration (typically about an hour) and the fleeting power you can only tolerate for a couple of minutes.

Power vs. Heart Rate

We generally advise prioritizing power over heart rate when training. HR can fluctuate for a variety of reasons, which can lead to inconsistent training if using HR alone. Power is typically more stable day-to-day and is especially more useful when performing shorter intervals (like the short threshold efforts found in Hobson). The longest interval in that workout is 4 minutes at 103% FTP, which may not be enough time for your HR to drift fully up into your threshold range. If your power at threshold feels like you’re working hard but able to sustain the effort, then you should be on the right track.

Adaptive Training

All that said, Adaptive Training will get you dialed in as you work through your plan. Make sure to fill out your Post-Workout Surveys, which AT will use to accelerate or slow your progression through your plan to lock you into appropriate workouts for your current fitness levels. It looks like you’re at Workout Levels 1-2 for all of your zones but Endurance, so you’ve got plenty of room to grow those up! As your Progression Levels increase, your workouts will become more difficult, reflecting your changes in fitness.

Outside Workouts

For your outdoor training, we’d recommend following along to your TR sessions using Outside Workouts. TR workouts done using Outside Workouts will affect your Progression Levels just as your indoor trainer sessions would.

Unstructured rides/races don’t impact your Progression Levels at this moment (they will in the future!), so we’d advise simply enjoying your unstructured rides without overthinking them too much. If they’re intense/hard, then we’d recommend replacing that ride with one of your intense workouts for the week so you don’t build up too much intensity.

I think your idea of doing 2 hard sessions with TR and saving the rest of your week for outside riding as the weather allows is a great starting point! If you’re able to get a power meter back on your bike for outdoor riding, AI FTP Detection will use that power data too, which means the work you put in on those unstructured rides will indeed impact your future AI FTP Detections.

Hope this helps! Feel free to let me know if you have any other questions. :slight_smile: