Not so slow, but certain 
I never use ERG on my Suito as I find it terrible.
My partner upgraded from a suito to a Neo 2 and she says she didn’t realize just how much of a difference there is. I’m afraid to try …
In all the years of owning it, I’ve never climbed at 100% until this season. Good grief, anything past 10% is terrible.
All the negatives aside, it’s a great trainer for the price! Especially considering I’ve done no maintenance in almost 5 solid years of riding.
I just had the same experience today. Failed Hakusan (3 blocks of suprathreshold/VO2 intervals with 15 seconds rest inbetween, 1:30 between blocks, mish-mash type) at the beginning of the second block. It’s only +0.2 on my PL, and my Threshold is considerably lower than my VO2 and my Sweet Spot, so I don’t think it’s a case of incorrect FTP setting as people in previous posts suggested. I don’t think it’s about duration, too, as it becomes clear very early in the workout whether it’s achievable or not. My feeling is that these workouts hit you really hard, because they’re very different in character to other workouts. Very intense, intervals come in quick succession, basically race scenario. This is also hinted by the fact that these first appear for me in the Specialty phase of my plan.
In my case, I certainly did not prepare as I would for a race. Even if I did, the novelty of the stress may have proven to be too much on its own. What I’d do next time is: start with an achievable workout slightly below my Threshold progression level, be well carbed-up and rested, and watch a CX race. Besides, it’s refreshing to fail every now and then, you can’t know your limits otherwise.
It’s a really tough workout - I’m dubious of the PL level assigned to those types of workouts with 15second breaks - the scoring system seems to think we can do an a lot of recovering in 15seconds….
I bet you would be ok with an over-under type workout with the same PL
Hakusan is a very difficult ride. IMO, TrainerRoad underrates PLs for shorter workouts, so if you can do a level 6 at 90 min, don’t expect to necessarily be able do do one at 60 min.
Also, a level 6.2 threshold ride is significantly more difficult than a 6.2 SS or V02 ride. The PLs in those zones are on a different scale, so you can’t compare. You would have to add at least 2-2.5+ points.
Out of interest - was this workout prescribed to you by adaptive training or do you have that turned off?
@kevistraining AT is on, but I can’t recall this particular workout being changed. I had it scheduled for next week as well, but it has now been downgraded to Hassler by AT. Regarding the 15 second brakes, I feel they actually give you just about enough to catch your breath and settle at the new intensity, but the 1:30 between sets is diabolical
@patrickhill yes, each zone is its own thing for sure, with Threshold being the final boss in my case 
I actually think it could be even more granular, kind of like different types of Threshold workouts having their own PL scores, as they feel so different.
That workout is basically a 45 minute race. 
This topic has struck a chord with me …I have struggled the last couple of weeks with threshold workouts. I have had to take pauses maybe 2 or 3 times across the 2 hour session (pauses as opposed to backpedalling). I have finished the workouts in all cases and reported them as Very Hard. Should I be labelling them as All Out and let adaptive training deal with it?
I am fine with VO2 efforts although on the XCO plan all the Vo2 stuff is over/unders. Maybe there is a gap in my fitness or possibly my FTP is set too high, I’m not sure. Some advice would be appreciated.
My self, when I feel I’ve failed a workout but struggled through, I tend to rate things as a ‘Maximal Effort’ (All Out).
I think it depends on your phenotype but I similarly do better at VO2max stuff (particularly bursts) but find threshold stuff harder. What I find helps for me is doing the workouts in resistance mode so I’m not battling the spiral of death.
Yea, this thread hits home with me as well. TR gave me Turquino a few weeks ago. It has 4x3mins at ONE watt under VO2MAX. It’s classified a Threshold workout, but you’re really floating right at VO2.
Good God - if you’re not experienced at 3 mins at VO2, it’s quite disappointing. I blew up after two out of four intervals.
I never thought I’d look forward to over-unders, but those extended VO2’s are killer.
@Savov7, this is just my years of experience talking here, but if your FTP is set correctly I think you should fail that workout.
Hassler, btw, is also very difficult.
Remember that threshold workouts are significantly harder than V02 workouts of the same workout level.
@XCO_mtb As far as I can remember from past podcasts, AT learns what you mean when you rate workouts, so you should be consistent with yourself.
I, personally, never give them “all out”, because I still haven’t fainted or puked on the trainer, and there should be room for that, too “Very hard” means that I struggled to an extent that I feel changed the nature of the workout, even if it didn’t prompt a reduction in intensity or stopping to catch my breath (although it usually does). Moderate is how I feel after a Productive Sweet Spot effort if I’m well fed and rested. Hard is everything else.
I hate to be that guy, but…your FTP is set too high (both as a training number and a reasonable facsimile for whatever your definition of FTP). Three minutes at 103% should be achievable. Turquino is 5x3 min at 103% with 6 minute recoveries—that’s 15 minutes at 103% total. Even if we use the 20 min test for FTP, that’s 20 min at ~105%. The 8 minute test is about 111%.
How was your FTP determined? How are your other workouts going?
Yes, maybe you’re right. Everything thing else has been fine. I’ve switched to a few months of traditional base and will be switching to a new plan in the new year with more intensity.
TR AI has been choosing my FTP. I already chatted with support, so I think I’m where I’m at now. Thx.
I maybe had a similar perspective, but I’ve changed to using the guidance of ‘how many more intervals or sets could you complete?’ because for me, it’s more objective. Especially indoors, workouts will feel tougher just because I’m so focused on the effort (Hard or Very Hard), but actually I could have done another set, in which case it’s more like Medium.
Just to update this - these workouts are waaaay easier in Resistance Mode. I can’t believe it took me 2 years to discover this!