Threshold workouts at 105%

I’m sure there’s a similar thread elsewhere but I’m sweating on my bike really frustrated about this! :smile:

Why am I getting threshold workouts at 273W when my FTP was set at 260 last week? :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

You’re ruining me six weeks from race day!


Ooof…I’d swap those for sure. Seems like a recipe for extra fatigue with minimal benefit (but what do I know).


Sounds like a support ticket is in order. Curious how you rated Rubicon. Suprised you got a higher level workout after struggling in a lower level.

Tough workouts for sure. Be interesting to hear the expected plan update for a poor sleep survey response. Seems like it assumes that you would have been fine on the workout and has progressed things accordingly.

At least you have 6 weeks until your event so plenty of time to get back on track.

if the system logic for this particular plan is to try to force you into doing 105% I’d definitely override it and find workouts that are a little below threshold. I know Kolie Moore often recommends 10ish watts below threshold and he is not a fan of this type of over threshold work.


also, 2min recovery between these intervals is a little nuts to me, I’d probably want 5min between for full recovery


A race… B race… C race?

I know plenty of people who do tough sessions just days before a race in the middle of a training block. One coach I know will do a workout the day before a C race to purposely race on tired legs (sadistic I know). Obviously that’s not the TR formula and AI doesn’t have different coaching personalities and philosophies (yet?)…

But I always wonder when I see these posts… why are you doing it? Why mindlessly do a workout on the calendar and then complain about it? Why not choose an easier alternate or just trash the workout?



That’s what I’m paying for! :grin:

FYI I think this is my first “one of those” posts in seven years. :wink:

I ran of a call into the pain cave jumped on the bike and with 30s before the first interval I was like……uhoh.


From my limited knowledge of training and from what I’ve learned from the EC podcast (Which I believe to be the most evidence based personally) training at this level only adds additional fatigue.

Obviously threshold is a zone and 10W above or below can be beneficial and still in that zone, but 105% with such few rest breaks accomplishes little. Kolie has said if the breaks are 3 minutes or less just make the blocks longer - but in what world are people doing 10-15 minutes blocks at 105%? If it is doable and the RPE matches the power maybe your FTP is too low, but if it’s an 8/10 from the gun and you’re staring at the screen wishing the block was over it’s too hard.

The point of threshold work should be to extend time in zone. I don’t know many people who can continuously push 105% for time in zone. If that were me I would adjust my threshold - because if 105% feels sustainable and doable and matches my RPE for threshold than maybe it is my MLSS/LT2/“Threshold”/FTP, etc…

This is where self coaching apps/real coaching/following programming has some pitfalls. If it doesn’t look right to you I would choose a different workout with a similar PL not supra-threshold.

My 2c


So while I struggled the first one, I did complete.
It doesn’t knock you back for a completed but struggled workout.

@hubcyclist Me too, I’m a little surprised it’s 105%. And I guess because I’m fine at higher levels on Tempo and VO2 workouts.

It feels a bit like holding vo2 for 8-10 minutes…

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i have (I believe) an accurately set ftp and recently I’ve done workouts like 3x40 @ 88%, I’ve done 90mins at 90+ % etc, and I did a workout at 105% last week, intended them to be race prep intervals, and at the end it very much felt like vo2 for me.


Not suggesting I necessarily agree or disagree with the approach, but I don’t think those workouts are terribly uncommon? I’m looking at a number of Fascat plans that I have in TP and many of them include 2x10, 2x15, 2x20 suprathreshold efforts as well.

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Yes it will depending on the answer of the struggle survey. @ZackeryWeimer Is there a support article anywhere about the outcomes of the struggle survey responses?

I have had these type of supra-threshold workouts in my plan recently and have to agree, feels like VO2 work. For the most part I swapped them out after a couple times hating life trying to hold 105% for that long.

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Huh, those are weird suprathreshold workouts especially if you just bumped your FTP. Only 2’ recoveries in-between seems pretty short too.

If I just had an FTP bump and was moving into suprathreshold territory, I’d be doing 4x6’ w/ 4’ recoveries in between first, eventually progressing to 3x15’ or 4x12’. Getting hit with 3x10’ right off the bat seems terrible.


especially when I have similar Vo2 workouts in the same plan targeting the same intensity (just shorter duration) :woozy_face:


this is an example in my head why i choose my own workouts, when it comes to working close to or above ftp. i just know the watts i can hold for how long with rest and duration. then i pick a workout, an develop my ability from there over many weeks. my AI FTP has built up over months but there’s a massive difference between doing 6 x 4 at 105%, and 3 x 8 at 105%, which i see as Vo2max efforts. its just a matter of how long it takes to get there. there’s no way a 2 min recovery is enough for me with >5 min efforts at 105%

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Hey there!

It seems like you got through Rubicon -1 on April 10th to start out, but with a couple of drops in power – from the looks of it, we’d call that workout an “All Out” effort, which should knock down the Workout Level(s) for similar workouts down the line. If it wasn’t marked “All Out,” that may be why you continued to get excessively difficult workouts plugged into your plan these last couple of weeks.

As @Rizzi mentioned, how you answer the post-workout surveys will impact how Adaptive Training changes up your plan as needed. Basically, for 105% Threshold workouts, we’d expect those to be “Hard” or “Very Hard,” so those responses wouldn’t bring down your Progression Levels. “All Out,” though, would mean the workout was beyond your current capabilities and we’d want to reassess the Workout Level to get you dialed into the right workouts instead.

For clarity’s sake, we’d call “Very Hard” a workout that was challenging, but you completed without any drops in power/backpedals/extra rest/etc. “All Out” would be one that you did finish, but experienced drops in power/backpedaled/took extra rest/etc.

The following TR Support article has more info on Post-Workout Surveys for anyone interested:

For the future, if you happen to come across a workout that looks to be too challenging for a given day, we’d recommend using Workout Alternates. You can filter for workouts that would be more Achievable, but still hit the energy systems you’re looking to train. If those mid/high-level 5.X Threshold workouts are too tough for now, it could be worth filtering for workouts closer to 5.0 or high 4.X.

Hope this info helps! Feel free to let me know if you have any additional questions. Six weeks is a lot of time and I’m confident we can get you dialed in for race day!


If it feels like VO2 work, it probably is which means your FTP is likely set too high. Threshold intervals should feel painful in the legs but your breathing should be controlled. I just did a set of 4x6’ at 105%, my legs were screaming at me but I was still taking deep and controlled breaths.

VO2 workouts, by their nature, should have your legs and lungs both burning. You should be gasping at the end of a VO2 effort. If a threshold workout has you gasping at the end of each interval, it’s not a threshold workout.


In the Fastcat SweetSpot 2 plan?

2x 20 minutes at 105%

Although by the time you get to the session in the plan its more like 2x 20 at 100 - 102% as your threshold has increased and it is based on a more accurate Threshold. Not an inflated vanity number.