Endurance rides in the real world and endurance score

I just compleated a self ultra race covering some 2000 km in 6 days. I did not put in individual activities because i had no idea when/where i would resting next.

My endurance score. stationary, in fact i think down! It declined from 9.5 to 7 i the last 6 weeks as i taperd and recovered from a series of 3 event all of which were double centuries (miles) or greater

Maybe I am abusing the system, but i don’t expect a decline


If your FTP has risen you will see a decline in the PL to adjust for your new FTP??

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By “endurance score” you mean Progression Level? If so, then yes, decline is expected. TR only updates PL for workouts that are registered in TR system (whether official library, created by Workout Creator or synced from Training Peaks, etc). Eagerly awaited Workout Levels v2 (WLv2) will consider unstructured rides as well in future but there is no certain deadline promised to release this feature. And as I understand, this project has been restarted internally couple times. But don’t worry, TR AI FTP detection still considers all workouts, even if PL is not updated.

Anyway, this is one side of story. Another is that while I like PL system as such, I find it less useful for zones outside Z3-Z4. Z2 PL might make sense for athletes who follow TR plans that cap Z2 with 2h30m (or 5h if setting max custom duration). I myself progress instead by duration 4h → 8h at IF ~0.63. FYI, 8h IF 0.63 is PL 8.8 workout.

Which one? I’ve been following RATN but that’s 1940km, so you must have been doing a different one?

ok so just my understanding

No worries, no ftp suff there :wink: just the pure lunacy of the ultra world


Yes Race around the Netherlands one, cap 151 . Had a nine hours of delays sorting a Garmin charging issue. but 67/250 is ok for this old man (57) all things considered.

we learn


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1950k , according to the website , komoot has a different number again. and the GPX given to riders was 1,948.3. Either way, thats before you count diversions, re routes for flooding, supply runs into town. ++

In any case 2k is just a figure of speech. as opposed to PBP at 1200 or NC4000 at around 4000. - for there of an idea of scale.

@PolderPhantom it probably won’t surprise you to know that even among the ultra-fit TrainerRoad cohort your effort is exceptional. TR technology does some awesome things but the tech continues to develop…my experience is that outdoor rides don’t always impact power levels the way you might expect. As time goes on that will no doubt improve but for now don’t let it bother you. It’s just a number.

Instead of worrying about power levels, let’s instead take a moment to celebrate your effort. High five, @PolderPhantom ! :raised_hand: That was an awesome effort. I’ve done some ‘Race Across ’ efforts and a few >400 mile days AND I CAN ASSURE YOU my ‘power level’ was in decline for quite an extended time after those efforts. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Saw the Limburg streams from a friend’s Strava a day or two back.

@Brennus Thank you.
Actually my motivation hear, was actually trying to make the product, which i love , better.
Much of my training is intervals during the weeks , and then very long endurance rides on the weekends
My FTP have been increasing steady, and my Long ride time improving steady.

Any yes, I can see all my ranking dropping in the next few weeks, as I do nothing !

Another interesting thought might be to switch on traffic lights and see when they turn green ! MY TSB/form at the moment is -209. It was 15 when i started, and apparently -88 after the first “day” ! (22 hours)

FYI Race around Netherlands is Self Supported so we are carrying or buying along the way everything we need. so supported crew allowed.

Take Care

Oh yes, that storm was something. I saw it coming, ducked into a forest, and slept for 5 hours in my bivi. all warms and dry and in spite of the lighting and thunder. but by 01:00 the forecast was constant rain for the next 12 hours. So wheels rolled. In total darkness, mud all over the roads, steep wet declines. speed was very slow taking 18 hours to cover the last section. That also incude some hike a bike, and replacing my break paws which has been “sanded flat” by the mud.
As of this morning, some rider were stuck as rivers swelled. my decission to move on regarless may have contributing to my finishing yesterday as opposed to today, not yet!


@Brennus Yes I broke the traffic lights ! Joe Friel style CTL/TSB calculations give a recovery of about 7 days doing nothing before i will back in the "optimum zone " .
Traffic lights have only given me 1 red and 1 yellow days

I submitted a ticket


Hey @PolderPhantom,

Nice work on your recent event! It sounds like you did really well even considering the setback from your Garmin. :muscle:

It looks like you’re working through your support ticket with Kent. He’s a really accomplished cyclist and a great support agent, so I’m sure will have some good info for you. :sunglasses:

I did want to mention on here though that unstructured activities such as the ultra you’ve just finished don’t currently affect your Progression Levels. This means that you can build up your Endurance PL (Progression Level), with a bunch of TrainerRoad workouts, but they won’t continue to build during unstructured rides or races because those activities aren’t currently assigned a Workout Level like the TrainerRoad workouts are.

Let me know if this helps and if you have other questions. Otherwise, I’m sure Kent will be able to help you out through your support ticket. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Hey Eddie,

I have full faith in Kent, and have have had previously had great support from the team.

I came to Trainer Road because of a referral from another ultra athlete. Increasingly TR is being recognized as the tool to use for building power and speed, whilst also doing very long weekend endurance runs. 100 - 125 miles is a Sunday training ride.

My motivation is purely to improve a product that in just a couple of months added 12% to my FTP, and lead to twi new personal best for 200km and 400km (my 400km improved by approximately 3 and a half hours.

I fully accept that unstructured actives do not contribute to PL growth, but i do feel that declining PL’s whilst such actives happening demotivating. Both load and intensity are know and could be used to delay decline for the appropriate levels. (my $0.02)

Anyway many thanks for your positive remarks.

Julian (Big TR fan)


Hey Julian,

Thanks for the kind words!

I’m really happy that you’re enjoying things so far with TR and we’re honored to play a small role in your journey. :slightly_smiling_face:

I totally agree with you here, and I appreciate the feedback! We really depend on hearing from our athletes to let us know what they like and don’t like as well as all of the ideas around what we could build out or change to make things better.

We are actually working on a feature that will give all of your rides a “Workout Level” which will feed your Progression Levels. It’s taking us quite a lot longer than we originally expected, but we aren’t going to be satisfied until things are working up to our standards. :nerd_face:

I’ll share your specific feedback with the team as I feel like it’s all worth hearing while we continue to work on this feature.

Thanks again for everything! :handshake:

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Wow they are long runs indeed. How do your feet hold up to running so far?

You won’t like the answer :joy:

Avoid carbon cycling shoes! I opt for much softer Shimano xm7 or specialized rime 2.0

Carbon are just too unforgiving and you feet swell changing shape after a few hours. In this game there is no need to accelerate out of corners so you can compromise and ship the balance towards comfort

Also mtb style shoes allow for hikeAbike without damaging cleats, which can be necessary


You used cycling shoes for running, why not running shoes?