Did somebody say VAT OF FROSTING ?!?!? Hell yeah. Bring it on.
Go talk to anybody in the P/1/2 fields at a local race, or just read online about what pros are actually doing. The days of doing 150+ races a year are behind us, but most folks still pin on a number 80-100 times a year. Then add in the āstuffā that is done at training camps, etc., and youāll see what I mean.
Even aspiring juniors race quite often, or at least did when they could.
Interesting. I have just signed up with a coach. The first week was free, and consisted of 2 days rest, 70 min Z2, another dayās rest, 60 min z2 with a few āleg openersā, and thenā¦ a FLAT OUT effort over 45-60 min to assess FTP.
I picked a route on Zwift which I thought would take about 54 minutes (over 6 laps). I did the course in 49min, and averagedā¦268W. The TR ramp test has me on 286. Now I started (first 2 laps) a touch slow, but I still think 270-272 average would have been genuinely the limit. Thatās 94.4% of the ramp test valueā¦
Agree.
Just pointing out that his cycling career has nothing to do with what he is presenting and NOT PRESENTING like the build and specific TR plans.
I think his video is not bad.
TR can do better.
But he seems to have an agenda, and unless he address the other parts of the plan, then IDK how much credibility should we give him. (I do believe in the part that the 6 week ss HV is bunkers)
lol yeah that would be the best bakery ever.
Heās a hell of a rider. But that doesnāt say much about his coaching (about which I know nothing, tbf). I mean Eddie Merkcx said ā Ride as much or as little, or as long or as short as you feel. But ride." They donāt get much better than Eddie, but thatās not an especially illuminating contribution to training methodologiesā¦
Itās odd that Mr Old seems incapable of understand selection bias.
Everyone has exactly the same opinion as when they first opened the thread.
Exactly. Letās not let this thread turn into an East Coast / West Coast hip-hop style rivalry. Or, more accurately, an XCM/ultra-endurance vs criterium/triathlete rivalry.
/s
DJās video struck a nerveā¦ Iām a TR āKool aid drinkerā as are a lot of us chiming in here. A fair percentage of us can agree that the stock TR plans, can be too much intensity for the ālarge ishā percentage of TR users; at least enough for TR to address the issue head on. Even the LV plan can cause issues if FTP is set incorrectly and for a newbie not used to structure. I started using TR about 8 years ago, now Iām 49. Iāve had to swap workouts and modify the plans heavily to work for me. In fact, some on this thread, including myself, have posted on other threads in this forum that revolve around this very issue, nothing new under the sun. The thing that rings true about DJās video for me is that TR doesnāt seem to acknowledge that their plans are aggressive intensity wise. I put myself in a hole many a time by following the plans too strictly without adjustment. The RRRMV specialty phase is not even possible for me to complete two weeksā¦ I got overtrained 2x by trying it. Look at how much intensity is involvedā¦
Things can also get real bad real quick coming off an FTP bump from base then heading into a build, a lot is thrown at you quickly (Vo2, threshold) and can be a real problem for a lot of folks; this has been brought this up on other threads ad nauseum.
As other expressed, I would like to see a masters plan and more modulation ability of the stock plans upfront or just have the stock plans be less intense and more tamed down. Maybe like pick this workout or this one on certain days. I know, I knowā¦ the podcast and plan notes elude to intensity swaps but TR needs to be way more emphatic and proactive about this as way too many people find it out the hard way and get turned off of TR; I know I did. I hired a coach for 4 months after using TR for a long time and learned a lot. I now self train and prescribe my own homebrew masters plan using the TR platform. But it took that coaching time to help me understand that I was tired and overdoing it. I learned the hard way. Like you and me, newer committed cyclists will go to great lengths to be faster so when a first time TR user dives into a stock plan it can be a bad experience like it was for me if they donāt have experience with structured training.
I fully support and appreciate the TR crew and have been a subscriber for years and will continue because itās the best platform to schedule workouts and create your own or modify theirs with the underutilized workout creator tool. I use plan builder for the general structure of the season and tweak things from there. But I believe the plans need a lot of attention, maybe Amber is already working on it, not sure. Does Chad, Nate, Jonathan and Pete follow the stock plans faithfully? Not 100% sure, but I know they deviate at times from them by what they say on the podcast and seeing Strava. Chad even has said that getting 90% of the workouts done is good enough so their is some flexibility there. I spend a lot time listening to other podcasts about SS, Vo2 max and how to distribute training intensity and structure training. I wish the crew would focus more on this in the podcasts and move this direction.
Maybe DJās video will shake things up just enough for Nate to prioritize improvement on the plans, maybe not, but I hope so. Either way, TR (podcast, forum etc.) has helped me get faster, with some bumps in the road and some sweat equity. I think tās a great company, committed to meeting their customers needs.
I have an image of Nate doing a drive by bottle squirt on his Specializedā¦ 
I thought it was an interesting, thought provoking video and I agreed with much more than I disagreed with.
My take as a TR subscriber for about 5 years with a couple of short breaks.
- I have never finished a plan - I pick either MV or HV SSB
- If I am going to follow a plan I trust that plan and am not going to start adapting it. The weekend rides are soul-destroying.
- The Masters plans have never arrived despite a year of promises.
- I think the TR overall product is great but I am not confident re the plans as an older athlete.
This is the point that I always come back to. Some riders are just touched by the hand of God. Itās not even a question of whether their training plan is optimal for them or not, but a question of whether it has any bearing on the 95th percentile rider.
Thereās as many threads of people underperforming the Ramp Test though, compared to what they are training at.
I think that regarding the ramp test, either over or under reporting what people think, that this forum isnāt necessarily representative of the whole user base. A bit like googling equipment, people donāt bother putting on the internet when everything is going just as they expected.
The main issue here is the definition of āhigh intensityā The TR team does not regard SS as a high intensity interval to be compared to VO2max or threshold workouts hence you donāt see 5 VO2max workouts in a week because they understand that you cannot have more than 3 high intensity workouts in a week. So the elephant in the room is the SWEETSPOT, is the SS intensity high enough not to be done more than 2-3 times a week? according to DJ the answer is YES! but according to TR the answer is NO!
Definitely more qualified than Nate at giving training advice.
Can we though? Based upon what - posts on the forum? Compared to the data that TR have on completions? If it was significant numbers, why wouldnāt they have changed things? Theyāve shown they are tracking this, with a number of plans modified because compliance was too low (Mary Austin going to -1 in SSB2 MV for example).
Yup. I was at school with a guy who was a national standard miler. His training was desultory. If heād ever actually properly applied himselfā¦ 
But genetics in the top 0.1% will have you faster in 6 months than most people will ever be 
Ppl reading this thread will benefit from watching DJās video on how to create your own training plan. He goes into some detail on programing the 4 phases:
Off-season
Base
Build
Taper
There are some example weeks for a 10h week rider. As a self coached cyclist that video was immensely appreciated. Very useful.
Cheers
@John_Hallas and @2fst4u I have had an experience similar to what you describe. Thanks for sharing.