I kinda have to work to get the 1.1g fat per kg body weight after years of reaching for chicken breast, skim milk, egg whites with an eye to keep lipid numbers looking good. It’s not like I’m super low body fat at the moment anyway, so upping the fat seems like a good thing to try.
Yeah, but what are the “right numbers” and “right mix”?
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They did not mention workout calories or choosing a daily calorie allowance on which to lose weight. One has to fill in the blanks themselves there.
I typically use the Lose It! app and take their calorie recommendations for losing, for example, one pound per week. (There are, of course, a hundred of these kinds of apps.
For rides, I increase the daily calorie budget with 1/2 the kilojoules of the ride. I experimented with adding 100% of the KJs back to the daily budget and didn’t lose a pound.
Basically, one has to figure out how to run a calorie deficit by themselves. Dr. Kyle though has done like 5 of their podcasts so maybe things are elaborated upon in one of the others.
I suspect that is way too regimented and involves way too much counting for most people. I do recommend the free version of the Lose It app. It allows you track foods and calories and look at daily macros. One could use that with Dr. Kyle’s protein and fat targets.
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I also want to know if I should be tracking the carbs I am taking in on the bike (toward my daily total). Because 30-60g per hour will quickly reach or overshoot a goal of 120carbs per day 
on a longer group ride/training ride. At this moment, I am aiming to hit 30-60g on my more intense rides and not adding it to my daily total, as the exercise should be utilizing that added intake. Anyone else skipping tracking those macros?
I use pecans and almonds to top off my fat goal.
I have heard tracking the protein and fat are the critical ones. Tracking everything keeps me from kidding myself, when I do it. The only mention of 120g carbs I recall was the USDA recommendation. It wasn’t what Dr. K recommended for athletes. Getting in his goals for protein and fat crowds takes up a fair bit of daily calories in a baseline total number. Fuel training volume with “enough” carbs so that you don’t feel depleted.
From the video I remember it was important to get sufficient carbs in the two meals before a big event. That could mean not eating in deficit on the rest day before a big ride. No need to go crazy with heaps of rice, but just error on the side of a little more.
Also recall them saying a 45min recovery ride doesn’t need to be fueled like a 75 min anaerobic workout. No need for a big sweet water bottle on the former, but the latter workout can benefit greatly from having the available sugar.
I like many people in this post enjoyed the podcast but got a little confused. So 1g fat and 1.5g protein per KG for my weight minus 2kg, 120 grams of carbs to keep my brain working. Is that the way to lose weight and on days I have a hard ride increase the carbs a little in the two meals before the ride?
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I think that would result in a too low calorie and low carb diet.
I ran all the numbers and came up with an average daily carb budget of 330g and that would be running a deficit in order to lose 1 pound per week. (That is also budgeting workouts.)
It seems that you still have to have a sense of one’s daily caloric requirements and then know how much to cut back on in order to run a deficit.
To make it more complicated, you can eat more carbs prior and after key workouts and then less carbs on easier endurance and recovery days.
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I think the point of Pfaffenbachs “diet” is you don’t budget for workouts. You figure out what you will need and add that in before the workout, that 2 meals aspect, and then also fuel the work itself for the rest.
For example at 100kg (current weight give or take) that would be about 2900 calories for me. (1fat 1.5protein your 330carb).
On the other hand if I followed the 120 a day that would be roughly 2000 (don’t feel like doing the math again).
2900 would put me about 200 over what I believe My fitness pal has me at for maintain, and 2000 would put me about 200 short for a 2lbs a week deficit (lots of rounding). That is a big range just from the carbs there.
I think that is the issue that people run into that say they fueled the workouts and the weight didn’t come off. They aren’t over fueling the workouts since you can’t really do that, but they are over fueling the pre storage aspect since the body can only store so much as glucose before it starts to store fat.
Here is my personal example, I work on my feet (own an auto repair shop). Somedays though I don’t leave my (standing )desk. Many people plan their calories around this being non sedentary, I always do the opposite. I plan to eat based on sitting around all day. Many people say they are active because they work out a lot and then on top of that add in their workout calories, never end up in a deficit. I also tell my garmin not to send steps and such to anything for calorie tracking, in my case it would be the opposite. If my watch is off I’m more active at work.
The 120g of carbs is likely a floor for most people, especially active people. That’s the vary the carbs part. Hit the protein, hit the fat, fill in what you need to survive and fuel the workouts for with carbs.
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To add to that, my take is that if one is not losing weight with whatever calculation method, then they need to subtract calories from the daily base budget.
I got this idea from an old Stronger by Science podcast. Calculations are great and all but in the end, are you losing weight or not. If you tracked calories and one month later, you haven’t lost a pound then you’ve found your maintenance level. Thus if you wanted to lose 1 pound per week, you do the math and subtract 500 calories from your daily allowance.
Then you keep going until you hit your goal or you stall out in weight loss and then subtract a bit more while maintaining Dr. Kyle’s protein and fat targets.
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From listening to this pod + prior ones with Dr. Pfaffenbach, my takeaway would be as follows. Let me know if this makes sense or if there you see any flaws in this? I too am a little unclear on how to calculate the “modulating” carbs, but this is what I have come up with! I am going to use myself as an example.
General Guidelines from Podcast:
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Fat: 1.0-1.2 g/kg body weight. Do not go below 0.9.
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Protein: 1.4-1.8 g/kg body weight. The values thrown around are a little all over the place, but I have locked in around 1.8g/kg from previous podcasts.
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Carbs: “Modulate” for the work being done. Go carb heavy the 2 meals prior to big workouts. Calculate your basal metabolic rate w/ normal life activity. Plenty of calculators online. Then remove calories from fat /protein, and the net calories should be met with carbs. Eat more carbs than your BMR when leading into big workouts. Example below.
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Do not set arbitrary goal weights - eat your protein, fat and eat for the work being done. Your body will follow suit and get to where it needs to go.
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Do not attempt to eat an arbitrary low goal weight - instead, go in 1-2kg steps
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Eat healthy, whole grain type carbs during normal meals. Plenty of fiber / vegetables. Eat basic carbs on the bike and right before.
Myself as an example:
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Current weight = 170lb (77kg). I probably have some extra visceral fat that I could drop to make me faster! I would love to get to my ideal weight for racing bikes! (that’s why we are all here right?!) Set macros for 165lb (75kg) and see where this takes me.
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BMR (Mifflin-St, Jeor Equation): 1721 calories + 800calories for baseline activity = 2396 calories
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Fat: 1.2 g/kg x 75kg = 90g/day or 810 calories/day
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Protein: 1.8 g/kg x 75kg = 135g/day or 540 calories/day
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Carbs Baseline Day: 2396 - 810 - 540 = 1046 calories/day = 261 g/day
Typical Session (1-2hours): Eat an extra 100g/meal for 2 meals prior
Big Day (~3hours): Eat an extra 150g/meal for 2 meals prior
Race Day or Massive Day (4+ hours): Go with the more typical carb loading of 8-12g/kg body weight. So eat an extra 750g of carbs for (2) days prior to race.
Math below:
1.5 hour training session, I burn around 1300 calories (per Strava). Subtract out carbs during and immediately after session (1300 - 500 calories from gels and drink mix) = 800 calories. So preload the 2 meals prior (dinner and breakfast in my case) with about 400 calories/meal from carbs or 100g/meal. Similar math for a Big Day.
Does this make sense? Or I am missing something? Now this is definitely a shift in my mindset and will take some getting use to. I definitely succumb to the “earn your ice cream” mindset that a lot of people have. I always feel fine having treats and stuff after a big day. But pounding a bunch of carbs pre-ANY WORK is mentally challenging for me.
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That suggests not maintaining a calorie deficit to lose weight. I don’t think I heard them say that.
Maybe just setting protein and fat targets would work for skinny guys trying to lose 5 pounds?
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My understanding in his logic is that you set your targets for a body weight that is achievable, like 1-2kg less than current weight. And eat your macros based on that. Then once you get there, you adjust again. I am paraphrasing but that is the gist I got from this and the prior few podcasts with him.
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Right but he they only talked about fat and protein macros in this podcast not how to run a calorie deficit.
I love it when Kyle comes on. He’s soo good at explaining how things work.
Next time he comes on, will you ask him what’s in a good recovery drink? He keeps saying, as long as you have your recovery drink, you don’t have to concentrate on refueling carbs. But never mentions what’s in it.
Thanks for all you do! After, consistent TR work since January; I set all time records in 1-20s and 3-8min this weekend. I set the previous records in my 30’s. I’m 50, so crushing my 30 year self!
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Doesn’t that mean, “drink some carbs”?
I seem to recall them saying that exact fueling wasn’t that important. They were stressing the two meals before and after.
Yea, but he says get your recovery drink. Is that just a big’ol carb bomb or something else?
My perspective as 50+ yo where improving body comp seems to be getting harder and harder… 15-20 pounds less weight (all other things being equal, and there’s the rub) would make a HUGE difference in my results, but who knows what my body can actually do. The advice to not set arbitrary goals and timelines was to account for the differences in how we respond to diet inputs, our genetic makeup, and how it never is a straight consistent trend even when we are doing things “right”. I would love to find my six pack for the first time in my life, but that may be a lost cause and wouldn’t necessarily translate into better results.
I took away that a slight calorie deficit would be necessary, but being depleted for workouts won’t get you where you want to go either. So we anchor our diet with protein and fats (need to keep the protein and fat metabolism pathways humming along), and do enough carbs to perform. If you aren’t moving the needle down after a few weeks, there’s room to cut some carbs out. If you are cranky and not hitting quality workouts, maybe add some.
Maybe it’s similar to setting a FTP goal. Just because you pick a number and date doesn’t mean your body will respond on that timeline, or that illness or injury won’t set you back. The process goals are more under our control, like goals on how much sleep to get, the quality of our diet, how to make recovery days better, keeping life/work balance–so that high quality workouts are completed each week. Then our body will respond as it will.
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I resemble that remark! In my twenties, I could start training in the spring and lose 5 pounds a month like it was nothing and hit race weight by June or July. At 59, I lose 5-7 pounds calorie restricting and then quickly hit a plateau wall that feels impenetrable.
I’ve gained about 10lbs each of the last two years. That’s not something I want to continue.
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