Can someone guide me through this analysis? I’ve read what TR provides as an explanation of what workout levels are, but I can’t find any other information to answer my questions. This was supposed to be a sweet spot workout at 3.0 workout level, but It wasn’t. Am I wrong that the workout level is 3.0 or is that the name of the actual workout?
What does “initial” represent? Initial what?
Red is what was completed, but why is it more or less than “initial”?
What do the green numbers represent?
“Increase” of what?
The only thing I gain out of this analysis is that my FTP is undervalued at the present time (could be very wrong). I think TR could do a better job of helping people understand what they are looking in terms of the data they provide. Any help in understanding this better would be appreciated. Thx.
“Initial” is your personal Progression Level that was in place prior to you completing the workout above. It is your “current” Progression Level in each zone, to put it another way.
Any workout you do (with it’s Workout Levels) may be higher, lower or equal to the Progression Level you have at any given time. The graph above shows those relationships for each zone at that time.
The red is specifically what is “offered” as the training benefit for each zone when doing this specific workout. Each workout has a different range of impact on the various zones. This can be seen when looking at any workout with a given zone of focus. Threshold has higher values there than Endurance focused ones. It is more or less the “rating” of each workout with relative value to each zone.
Green means the Workout Level you completed exceeded your initial Progression Level, so that is the “gain” you made in that zone.
Per yours, you gained 0.7 in Tempo and 1.0 in Sweet Spot upon completing this workout.
Not sure that is the story here at all. This is one single workout, with no judgement of your FTP value without a lot more info and consideration.
Let’s see if any of my info above helps and then see where we need to head next.
One final TLDR that may offer minimal value:
Workout Levels are what a workout offers for potential training impact.
Progression Levels are the record of Workout Levels you have actually completed.
Thanks for taking the time to provide the detail. Something isn’t clicking for me still, but I appreciate the effort in trying to make this clearer for me. The best thing for me to do at this point is to continue watching it as I go along and see if things start to make sense. Thanks again
What questions do you still have after Chad’s explanation? I’m pretty new to TR also, but I think I’ve figured out the Progression Level chart for the workout, for the most part. So, if you still need more clarity, ask away and I’m sure someone will chime in with an answer.
Trying to guess what you still find confusing, I’ll add a bit more detail about the graphics. The Gray bars are where TR currently saw you in each of those categories before the ride. The Red bars are what that workout achieved. You did a SweetSpot focused workout, so you’ll see the red is higher for Tempo, Threshold, and especially SS, but the ride had very little Z2 (Endurance) so it’s “short” on red.
In fact, you achieved higher performance on both Tempo and SS than the system saw you at before, so it increased your levels 0.7 and 1.0 to bring your levels up to your current performance.
The next ride will show the gray higher for Tempo and SS since those levels increased from this workout. If you don’t do any workouts that impact those zones for a while, you’ll see that gray estimate drop until you prove you’re at a higher level again.
Thanks. So what happens when you have “initial” of let’s say 4 in whatever zone you choose. After a workout and the work done (as represented by the red bar) is a 1, that essentially means the workout did nothing to advance the level of that zone, correct?
The workout was labeled as Sweet spot 3.0. What does the #3.0 represent then? If it was labeled as 3.2, does that mean there is a .2 increase of difficulty or is that a time measurement?
Some of the confusion is around the fact that the workout was labeled as sweet spot and I spent none of my time in that zone leading me to believe 1) the workout was not targeted correctly or 2) my FTP is under-valued like i tired to express before. If that can’t be derived from this workout, as stated by the initial response, it makes even less sense. If a workout is suppose to target a specific zone and the post workout results say that no work was done in that zone (TR analysis says time spent in sweet spot was 0:00:00 minutes), it doesn’t make sense to me.
My “initial” sweet spot (rating, level, measurement,…) prior to this workout was 2.0. How would I gain 1.0 in a zone I never worked in? I spent 50 minutes in tempo in an hour long ride labeled as sweet spot 3.0 so I question what the numbers mean.
At the end of day, it isn’t a huge deal and doesn’t affect much. I’m a numbers person and like the analysis provided, I just wish TR provided more context around what the numbers actually mean. It’s getting more and more obvious that it’s my issue rather than something else, so I’ll just see what I can pick up by watching the values over time.
AFAIK, there is no definition of what each .1 means, it’s just “harder or easier”. I could be wrong though. Also, each zone is different, so 3.2 in SS isn’t the same amount of “hard” as a 3.2 in VO2, so don’t get confused there.
What do you mean by “I spent none of my time in that zone (SS)”? I can’t see the workout goals, so can’t check, but I’d assume that workout is mostly in SS zone.
The Workout Level range in the TR library is essentially 0-10. So a 3.0 is about 1/3 level of difficulty (my wording, not TR) within the Sweet Spot spectrum.
Workout Level is a way to compare and evaluate individual workouts against other workouts, or with respect to your Progression Level. It can give some potential insight to how hard or easy any workout might be to you in your present state.
It is not a measurement of time. Equal time workouts can have vastly different Workout Levels. And workouts of vastly different times (1hr vs 3hr) can have the same Workout Level. It all boils down to the specific demands within each workout. Those come from the usual training input levers for intervals: Duration (time), Intensity (power target), Frequency (quantity & spacing).
A 3.2 vs a 3.0 would me TR expects it to be 0.2 “harder” than a 3.0 workout. The reason for that needs to be seen in the interval details (per above).
This can lead to confusion. The zone name (like SS) relates to the intended zone of focus… but for lower Workout Levels in some zones the actual workout emphasis may not be obvious or direct.
In the case of 0-3 type Workout Levels, these are what I call “Intro or Prep” workouts. These can have minimal time in the labeled zone and seem like they are miscategorized. But in the context of an Adaptive Training Plan, they serve as a stepping stone to more specific (and obvious) connection to the labeled zone name.
Depending on the plan in use, and your placement along the path of a training plan, this could be true but it not possible to identify without greater info and context. If you are early into a plan (usually the case for low Workout Level workouts), then it’s potentially too early to make that call for this or many other workouts.
See above, not all workouts relate as directly to the zone name in all cases.
This workout is 5x8 at 85% of FTP. This is just below the 88% point where TR considers SS. As above, despite this not being in the SS zone I see this workout as one that leads you to “proper” SS workouts in the near future.
Depending on your selection for how you feel at the end of the workout (an aspect not discussed but is potentially impactful), your next workout in this zone could be right in the SS zone proper.
BlockquoteThanks. So what happens when you have “initial” of let’s say 4 in whatever zone you choose. After a workout and the work done (as represented by the red bar) is a 1, that essentially means the workout did nothing to advance the level of that zone, correct?
You’re correct. In this case, 4.0 is your ‘progression level’, and 1.0 is the 'workout level". Your progression level will remain at 4.0 afterwards, until you complete an activity with a workout level of higher than 4.0.
The caveat is that your progression level may be adjusted downwards after a period of time without any activity in that zone (like a couple of weeks at least), and also adjusted (down or up) when you change your FTP (up or down).
I think @mcneese.chad answered all your questions. I just want to expand on what @Flashpoint51 said too. When your FTP changes, all of your PL’s will change too. This is expected behavior.
I’ve read everything I know to read and watch before coming here to ask for more clarity. My apologies for not understanding. From looking at the forum posts, I’m not alone in the confusion, which speaks to my initial comment about TR needing to put out more detailed explanations to what their number analysis actually means. Thanks for taking the time.
Sorry if someone said something you thought was a dig. I don’t see any, I just see people trying to help you understand. Keep asking questions if you still don’t!
We think the other athletes in this thread did a great job explaining how everything works – what, specifically, are you still confused about? We’re happy to clarify further if needed!
You can also open a support ticket with support@trainerroad.com if you think that would be helpful.
I’ll just add that if you don’t already, listening to the podcast really helped me understand how this all works. There is more talk about the TR system etc back a couple years ago (compared to more recent episodes) in the podcast episodes. Might be good to check a few out.
Agree the explanations are weak. It took me a while to figure out what PLs meant and how they work. I was on TR years ago and got back on this past Nov looking forward to the adaptive features. So far, it seems like a wack hodgepodge bodge.
Thanks. Been there, done that. Before I came here to ask, I’ve really exhausted what resources I had available to me. The podcast is helpful, but just not with this topic. Thanks
Nah, its definitely explained ad naseum on old episodes.
Maybe you guys are overthinking it. Its fairly simple. Each workout has a level, your personal progression level coincides with the highest level youve completed in a given zone. If your FTP changes, the AI may adjust your levels accordingly.
